August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[CaptChill]

Sure is quiet on the "western front". Anyone hear anything? I read in an update that Judge Silver was supposed to "do" something yesterday.

 

[flyer63]

Agreed, and then some. Count me out of ANY cheerleading for team tempe, ever, period, end-of-story. Let us not forget that even the thought of "industry standard contracts" is considered nothing more than tee-hee-girls/ha-ha/"sillly stuff" in their own emails.

Triple agreed. They have shoved it up our tail pipes for 12 years and now they want help. Forget aboooouuuut it

 

[cactusboy53]

Triple agreed. They have shoved it up our tail pipes for 12 years and now they want help. Forget aboooouuuut it

You worked for team tempe for 12 years? I thought you were an Eastie. Team Tempe ran America West Airlines through 2005 (that's only 8 years ago), until America West Holdings bought US Air.

You could have had a first JCBA in 2007, but your AAA leadership pulled out from talks. Then the USAPA brain trust had the brilliant idea to change collective bargaining agents. That's why your tailpipe hurts.

 

[Pi brat]

You worked for team tempe for 12 years? I thought you were an Eastie. Team Tempe ran America West Airlines through 2005 (that's only 8 years ago), until America West Holdings bought US Air.

You could have had a first JCBA in 2007, but your AAA leadership pulled out from talks. Then the USAPA brain trust had the brilliant idea to change collective bargaining agents. That's why your tailpipe hurts.

Would you have taken "what You could have had?"

 

[Claxon]

You worked for team tempe for 12 years? I thought you were an Eastie. Team Tempe ran America West Airlines through 2005 (that's only 8 years ago), until America West Holdings bought US Air.

You could have had a first JCBA in 2007, but your AAA leadership pulled out from talks. Then the USAPA brain trust had the brilliant idea to change collective bargaining agents. That's why your tailpipe hurts.

Wrong again. Your nic or nothing approach did not work back then and it is not working today. Your johnny mac, who used to like showing up at doug parker meetings accusing the East pilots of slowing down, did not want the kirby.


"MEC NewsDirect
January 31, 2008

A AAA/AWA Joint Chairman's message has been emailed to pilots and posted
under What's New. The text of the letter is below:
AAA-AWA MEC Joint Chairman’s Message

January 31, 2008

Fellow America West and US Airways pilots,

Today, the AAA and AWA Steering Committees and their respective merger and
negotiating teams will begin talks about the issues separating our pilot groups in
order to produce a comprehensive contract counterproposal for both MECs to
review. As we have said in the past, any comprehensive proposal must adequately
address seniority implementation issues and all open JNC issues for both pilot
groups.

The Steering Committees are meeting at a neutral site, and to give this process
the best chance for success, both sides have agreed to a communications blackout
during this time. As a result of this policy, our pilots should understand that any
hearsay information floating around is unsubstantiated, and should be treated as
rumor only.

If the AAA and AWA Steering Committees are able to successfully produce a
comprehensive contract counterproposal, it will first be reviewed by both MECs. If
both MECs approve the final product, JNC negotiations would resume with
management as we counter the infamous “Kirby proposal” that we received on
May 8, 2007.

If a TA is achieved through joint negotiations and is subsequently approved by
both MECs it will be sent to each pilot group for ratification. The rank and file
members of this union will be the ultimate arbiters of any agreement.

There is much at stake here for both pilot groups. None of your union volunteers
takes the challenges ahead of us lightly. Your MEC leadership and the Steering
Committees all appreciate your patience while we work through these very
difficult issues.

Fraternally,

Captain Jack Stephan
Chairman, AAA MEC

Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA MEC"

 

[EastUS1]

cactusboy53, on 22 August 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:
You could have had a first JCBA in 2007, .....

Would you have taken "what You could have had?"

It's more than obvious he would have. Otherwise, why even mention that sick joke of a contract proposal? Bottom feeders are, by nature, long-accustomed to eagerly eating scraps...and all must remember that the current west contract's the best thing they've ever seen.

 

[EastUS1]

They have no reason to give you anything approaching industry standard. USAPA couldn't secure .....

So then; why was it the case that the AWA standard of compensation was the lowest-set-bar within the entire industry for virtually it's entire existence? What happened to the mighty negotiating ability, unity and general toughness of all those "spartans" that now wish to save the day for everyone? Note: That would be many of the same fine people who've previously posted their gleefull joy at the very thought of crossing/scabbing any USAPA picket lines. 😉

You've a management team that within their own emails, literally laughs at notions of "industry standard contracts" as being nothing more than "silly stuff", and yet you would attack ANY representative body for any employee group as being the presumed problem? Additionally; the west reps would have all immediately don knee pads in full support of these fine folks, without any consideration or even the slightest shown respect whatsoever? Whew! Again I must honestly just wonder as to who (if anyone) ever taught such people as yourself how to actually "think"? 🙂

Perhaps it's just an issue of "you'se" having a wholesale (and for decades well-practiced) lack of self respect...?

PS: I very much do hope all this mess works out well for all pilots "here" in the future...but I'm personally allergic to knee pads, pom poms and koolaide. My honest expectation, should this merger occur, is that team tempe will do it's utmost to renege on any presumed employee/pilot benefits, or otherwise delay/"misinterpret"/obfuscate/go-to-grievance/etc any they can't entirely avoid paying. Their history's well-established.

 

[EastUS1]

East vs West aside: Any/all minus voters can kindly show me, from proven example(s), where I'm at all wrong there, and perhaps afterwards, only then sell me even a high-mileage/mostly-worn-out set of their favorite pom poms......? 😉

PS: So...zero actual "thought" voiced at all, and just another minus vote? Sigh! I think I'll pass on purchasing any pom poms then. 🙂

Seriously: Who did teach such people how to ever, actually "think"? 😉

 

[Claxon]

You could have had a first JCBA in 2007, but your AAA leadership pulled out from talks.

"MEC Chairman’s Message

February 8, 2008

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, February 08, 2008.

After nine days of talks between the US Airways and America West Steering Committees, the America West contingent has chosen to stand down talks. At this time they are not prepared to address seniority implementation issues, specifically, mitigating the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.

Recall that we met to determine if we had enough common ground between us on important issues to come up with a comprehensive counterproposal for both MECs to review. As we told you, this counterproposal would have to adequately address not only all open JNC issues, but more importantly for the AAA pilots, pay parity and seniority protection. We came to the neutral site at Wye River, MD with these goals in mind, and within these goals we developed certain thresholds needing to be achieved for the benefit of the US Airways pilots. Despite what you may have heard or read, none of that changed during the meeting.

While we respect what the AWA pilots were there to accomplish, the US Airways MEC’s position remains the same and our MEC’s Steering Committee members did not compromise that position. We never wavered from our goal of protecting you from the Nicolau Award, and our threshold for meeting those goals never changed.

I’ll be calling the MEC into session for a special meeting next week. While there is no comprehensive counterproposal to bring back to the MEC, they'll receive a briefing on the process, and I plan to add two other items to the agenda: developing a distribution methodology for 2007 Profit Sharing and Stock Options and to review an agreement extending the timeframe for filing disputes concerning flow-through issues.

The MEC will now review our options. Keep in mind that the odds of any plan we develop succeeding are greatly diminished by members of this MEC continuing to cower behind their fear of failure and seeking to sabotage any process we elect to pursue. You can see that all of the noise and accusations coming out of PHL Council 41 about the work of our Steering Committee was unfounded and disingenuous. When it came time to meet directly with our AWA counterparts, we did exactly what we said we would, AAA pilots working with AWA pilots trying to mitigate the damages of the Nicolau Award.

Excuses and alibis will not replace leadership. We made a promise, and we kept it. There was no cramdown, no end-run deal, no deal chasing and no back room conspiracies. I hope you did not fall for these contrived ideas spread in order to try and scare you. The majority of this MEC and your MEC officers are not afraid of failure. We said we were going to look under every stone to find solutions and we meant it. My only fear is that some of our MEC fear the search may actually produce something that would require them to lead rather than criticize. I can tell you that the majority of your MEC was willing to continue the search. Although this process has not worked so far, we are no worse off for engaging in the exercise.

You would have been extremely proud of our team of pilots who met at the Wye River Conference Center. These are men of honor and integrity and they are most importantly, men of their word. Their commitment to the process and to you was rock solid. Threats and intimidation attempts by some minority disenchanted MEC members and paper tigers did not sway these men of honor from pursuing the direction that the majority of the MEC had set. They did their best trying to reach a solution to the Nicolau Award. At this time the AWA pilots are unwilling to address our seniority concerns. Again, we are no worse off for having engaged in this process. We remain right where we started and that is in separate operations with the West.

I thank you for your patience during the past few weeks. I know it’s been difficult. There will be other options at our disposal after the MEC gets the chance to strategize internally next week. While conditions and opportunities may change, the goal has not and our threshold for success has not. Our mission remains the same, to protect you from the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.

 

[mrbreeze]

"MEC Chairman’s Message

February 8, 2008

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, February 08, 2008.

After nine days of talks between the US Airways and America West Steering Committees, the America West contingent has chosen to stand down talks. At this time they are not prepared to address seniority implementation issues, specifically, mitigating the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.

Recall that we met to determine if we had enough common ground between us on important issues to come up with a comprehensive counterproposal for both MECs to review. As we told you, this counterproposal would have to adequately address not only all open JNC issues, but more importantly for the AAA pilots, pay parity and seniority protection. We came to the neutral site at Wye River, MD with these goals in mind, and within these goals we developed certain thresholds needing to be achieved for the benefit of the US Airways pilots. Despite what you may have heard or read, none of that changed during the meeting.

While we respect what the AWA pilots were there to accomplish, the US Airways MEC’s position remains the same and our MEC’s Steering Committee members did not compromise that position. We never wavered from our goal of protecting you from the Nicolau Award, and our threshold for meeting those goals never changed.

I’ll be calling the MEC into session for a special meeting next week. While there is no comprehensive counterproposal to bring back to the MEC, they'll receive a briefing on the process, and I plan to add two other items to the agenda: developing a distribution methodology for 2007 Profit Sharing and Stock Options and to review an agreement extending the timeframe for filing disputes concerning flow-through issues.

The MEC will now review our options. Keep in mind that the odds of any plan we develop succeeding are greatly diminished by members of this MEC continuing to cower behind their fear of failure and seeking to sabotage any process we elect to pursue. You can see that all of the noise and accusations coming out of PHL Council 41 about the work of our Steering Committee was unfounded and disingenuous. When it came time to meet directly with our AWA counterparts, we did exactly what we said we would, AAA pilots working with AWA pilots trying to mitigate the damages of the Nicolau Award.

Excuses and alibis will not replace leadership. We made a promise, and we kept it. There was no cramdown, no end-run deal, no deal chasing and no back room conspiracies. I hope you did not fall for these contrived ideas spread in order to try and scare you. The majority of this MEC and your MEC officers are not afraid of failure. We said we were going to look under every stone to find solutions and we meant it. My only fear is that some of our MEC fear the search may actually produce something that would require them to lead rather than criticize. I can tell you that the majority of your MEC was willing to continue the search. Although this process has not worked so far, we are no worse off for engaging in the exercise.

You would have been extremely proud of our team of pilots who met at the Wye River Conference Center. These are men of honor and integrity and they are most importantly, men of their word. Their commitment to the process and to you was rock solid. Threats and intimidation attempts by some minority disenchanted MEC members and paper tigers did not sway these men of honor from pursuing the direction that the majority of the MEC had set. They did their best trying to reach a solution to the Nicolau Award. At this time the AWA pilots are unwilling to address our seniority concerns. Again, we are no worse off for having engaged in this process. We remain right where we started and that is in separate operations with the West.

I thank you for your patience during the past few weeks. I know it’s been difficult. There will be other options at our disposal after the MEC gets the chance to strategize internally next week. While conditions and opportunities may change, the goal has not and our threshold for success has not. Our mission remains the same, to protect you from the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.

thanks for posting the TRUTH!!!

 

[EastUS1]

PS: I very much do hope all this mess works out well for all pilots "here" in the future...but I'm personally allergic to knee pads, pom poms and koolaide. My honest expectation, should this merger occur, is that team tempe will do it's utmost to renege on any presumed employee/pilot benefits, or otherwise delay/"misinterpret"/obfuscate/go-to-grievance/etc any they can't entirely avoid paying. Their history's well-established.

PPS: From Death of a Salesman, with the central character discussing things in a fantasy encounter with his far more adventerous, rich and successful uncle: "I'm building something with this company!"....Uncle: "Can you hold it in your hand?" 😉

Professedly willing strike-breakers/"spartans"/grand cheerleaders for "doug"/et al...being virtual newborns to the larger concerns of this industry, I don't expect to "get that" at all. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

You could have had a first JCBA in 2007, ...

You mean the utterly disgusting kirby proposal? We all "could have had" a cheese-only pizza, or perhaps even the boon of a flat tire. What's your possible point? 🙂 Just polish your heroically "spartan" knee pads a bit more, and politely and ever-so-gently then ask of your "heros"/best-friends-forever-"doug"-et-al...and then time just how long it takes for their hysterical laughter to subside, given that the question comes from eager "spartan"-would-be-strike-breakers:

 

[luvthe9]

You worked for team tempe for 12 years? I thought you were an Eastie. Team Tempe ran America West Airlines through 2005 (that's only 8 years ago), until America West Holdings bought US Air.

You could have had a first JCBA in 2007, but your AAA leadership pulled out from talks. Then the USAPA brain trust had the brilliant idea to change collective bargaining agents. That's why your tailpipe hurts.

Probably the biggest liar and hypocrite on the board.
I take that back, the biggest lies come from cleardirect

 

[luvthe9]

11/14/2011

Res Judicata



Posted Today, 12:54 AM


The Dec. ruling should be out by April. LOA93 Loss will have been handed down to USAPA and that reality will have had a few months to percolate among the silent majority. I, and others a hell of a lot smarter than I, believe that Judge Silver is going to effectively end this debate by telling the company that they are absolutely liable if they touch the Nic. The law is clear. It is illegal for the company to enjoy the benefits of a new contract that work as a DFR against a group of employees. All AOL has to do is persuade the Judge enough that a DOH contract is indeed a dfr and will make the contract Illegal. Guess where all the evidence for proving that fact will be imported from? Wait for it.......

ADDINGTON!

The case that was dead, buried, meaningless, and forgotten will be back front and center to haunt USAPA. Being a Jury already found against USAPA for DFR in regards to a DOH list....how hard is it going to be to convince Silver that a DOH contract is a DFR?

It's a no brainer. USAPA is doomed and they damn well know it. Thank God they finally are getting competent legal advise.

This will be over by April.


Res Judicata...a thing already decided.

I take it back, Res Judicata is the tall tale king, then Dave.

 

[Claxon]

The merger is very, very doubtful. How do you stall and keep the troops happy during the holidays? Ask to schedule a court trial right up to the holidays. A ten business day trial starting Novermber 12th ends right before Thanksgiving and will not be ruled on untill the middle of January.

January, "sorry guys, the big bad wolf is the DOJ and USAPA for not backing us. No equity for AMR pilots, no retro pay for others."

Anyone that backs the company now is just helping them stall. Does anyone have a good holiday egg nog recipe?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-airlines-us-airways-seek-210319320.html