August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

You are re-writing history again.

The West had no decision to make. First, the West has never been in a position to compromise the Nic. Had the West MEC or NC done anything at WYe or at Prater's request, AOL would have been founded and sued ALPA and stopped the whole thing dead.

Once usapa was voted in, the West had no say in anything, and completely no method of compromising the Nic


The only available contractual solution was to force separate ops, Which the east did by first walking out of negotiations, and then voting in uscaba.

Since then, it has been the east, not the West who does not want to abide by the TA. A continual attempt at avoiding following the TA and reneging on not only the Nic, but the separate ops provision is why the scab union has wasted 6 years.

Let me put it to you in the simplest terms.....you can either take the Nic, or sit on LOA 93 forever. There is nothing else coming to the east.


One more thing. Uscaba has demonstrated the same behavior over the pension investigation process. News elfin flash, the pension are gone. How about the scab union quits spending general funds on that lost cause.

You're wrong.

 

[Claxon]

Yes he did....

He has made it clear that he feels the company has stabbed the scab union in the back by not breaking to their scab demands...

Let's see what were his complaints?

1. The scabs are still on LOA 93 despite the fact that they threw millions at trying to find a non-existant loophole to get out of that contract. Too bad they had to push all the way to an injunction and really get #### slapped.

2. That Parker negotiated with the APA and left the scabs out in the cold. DUH! Earth to uscaba...you are completely irrelevant!

3. Something about LTD 401k contributions? Don't know a lot about this one, probablywould side with RR had his scab union not thrown West furloughs under the bus so east pilots could steal their jobs.

4. Was there another..? I lost track amongst all e other false accusations he threw out.


BTW....the Nic is still the only accepted system seniority list for the combined LCC pilot
group. So, if the merger goes through, plan on APA+NIC and if the merger fails plan on NIC at LCC.

BTW, when is the "Army" going to put out an update?

 

[cltrat]

2. That Parker negotiated with the APA and left the scabs out in the cold. DUH! Earth to uscaba...you are completely irrelevant!

here's you a little news flash, your boy Parker slapped every union on US property in the face by getting in bed with AA unions to get his merger scheme. USAPA's status had nothing to do with it but keep throwing chit against the wall maybe one year you'll get a prediction right.

 

[Claxon]

here's you a little news flash, your boy Parker slapped every union on US property in the face by getting in bed with AA unions to get his merger scheme. USAPA's status had nothing to do with it but keep throwing chit against the wall maybe one year you'll get a prediction right.

Yes, Doug Parker has most likely alienated all of his employees with his antics. His merger ability or lack thereof is stunning. Nic4 is just a frustrated AA pilot wannabe.

 

[snapthis]

Hey DH, I didn't read that until I'd posted here. Look at the time Einstein.

Oh really?

Hey DS, I posted Hummel's message at 7:20 AM and made a comment at 7:27 AM.

What time did you post your Hummel update? Check your Mickey Mouse watch.

#4360 Pi brat Posted Today, 08:03 AM
Veteran

Registered Member

6,827 posts
Okay, happy now Snappy? Silly me, of course not.

 

[Phoenix]

I can't really argue with any of that. USAPA did open themselves up to what has happened, but again, not matter who the CBA was the east wasn't going to accept the Nic until they had to. So, that left you guys with a decision to make. You made it and with all the events, here we are.

Saying over and over again "If they east had just accepted binding arbitration...." is like me saying "If I were 10 feet tall I could change this light bulb without a ladder." Just not going to happen, so I have to come up with an alternate solution. I don't think the west's alternate solution has been very effect and we know it has been very expensive.

Regardless of the outcome, anyone can sue and see what they get. I really can't see any mechanism that finds an agreed solution ahead of time that prevents future lawsuits. Its just not the way the law is set up. The union must "thrust" the knife and then people can sue.

The company has refused to do any negotiating to move along to the next CBA, and they have used the threat of a lawsuit as a pretext for continuing bankrupt contracts.

The court repeatedly meddling in affairs that are not yet justicable has fueled the company's profit strategy. If the West really wanted an honest answer (with integrity, mom, and apple pie) then they would help their union get a contract and deal with the seniority issue when it is unquestionably ripe.

Not gonna happen.

 

[snapthis]

Appeal No. 13-15000​

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS​

FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT​

US AIRWAYS, INC.,​

Appellant,​

v.​

DON ADDINGTON, et al.,​

Appellees,​

ON APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT​

FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA​

THE HONORABLE ROSLYN O. SILVER, CHIEF JUDGE​

CASE NO. 10-1570-PHX-ROS​

REPLY BRIEF FOR APPELLANT US AIRWAYS, INC.

Excerpts:

II. US AIRWAYS HAS A RIPE CLAIM FOR A DECLARATORY​

JUDGMENT.​

A. The Constitutional Ripeness Test Is Satisfied.​

This clear threat of litigation if US Airways were to agree to USAPA’s non-Nicolau seniority demand is more than sufficient to support a finding of ripeness.​

 

[snapthis]

It's going to the 9th. On US Airways' terms.

 

[Claxon]

It's going to the 9th. On US Airways' terms.

The merger law suit is on the DOJ terms.

 

[Phoenix]

It's going to the 9th. On US Airways' terms.

You are merely regurgitating the opinion of the plaintiff who didn't like the answer they already received.

What significance is this? Are you bidding A330 now?

 

[snapthis]

You are merely regurgitating the opinion of the plaintiff who didn't like the answer they already received.

What significance is this? Are you bidding A330 now?

Significance? I don't know. I guess the company paid Siegel a bunch of money to write a meaningless piece of paper and sent it to San Francisco.

Feeling left out of the process?

BTW, are you saying USAPA holds the leases on the 330's?

 

[Phoenix]

It's going to the 9th. On US Airways' terms.

Before you rejoice in the "US Airways" terms, you should open your eyes to exactly what their premise is (the premise is always the real heart of any issue, the achilles heal if you will).

You will remember that Judge Silver decided to play fast and lose with the notion of "harm" in your DFR lawsuit (This is about DFR, remember 🙂 ). She decided to proceed to trial on the faulty premise that a delay to the merger was an adequate harm to have a DFR trial. What she failed to acknowledge was that the harm was speculative at best, and even worse the harm she identified was to the company or the airline industry as a whole, not to the Spartans and Dire Wolves (in the context or airline travel, a delay is never acceptable). Her speculative "harm" of delay is not a harm to the plaintiff and even if the "harm" is true, and caused by USAPA **snicker, snicker** USAPA has no duty to prevent delay to the company or the airline industry as a whole. Even if Silver finds USAPA is culpable for delaying the merger, harming the company, and harming the general airline industry, what damages does AOL get from that?

Judge Silver looked far and wide to find a "harm", any "harm"... whether or not it was relevant to the DFR... THE DFR! And by fiat she then decided it was relevant. That is a recipe that even Wake didn't mess with.

The company is proceeding to the 9th with the same faulty premise. They are saying that they are experiencing "harm" and are suggesting that the courts should use this irrelevant harm to them as a license to meddle in a DFR question, a DFR question that cannot by definition be justicable unless their is an immediate and direct harm caused by USAPA, against the West.

What is the direct and immediate harm? Why can't Silver express it ClearDirect?

 

[Claxon]

Significance? I don't know. I guess the company paid Siegel a bunch of money to write a meaningless piece of paper and sent it to San Francisco.

Feeling left out of the process?

BTW, are you saying USAPA holds the leases on the 330's?

You are barely only required to be wearing briefs to file legal briefs. I am sure both of Mr. Siegal's briefs were full of what he thought was important findings.

 

[traderjake]

If the West really wanted an honest answer (with integrity, mom, and apple pie) then they would help their union get a contract and deal with the seniority issue when it is unquestionably ripe.

Not gonna happen.

The West is going to help you steal their jobs?

You're right, it's not gonna happen.

 

[Pi brat]

Oh really?

Hey DS, I posted Hummel's message at 7:20 AM and made a comment at 7:27 AM.

What time did you post your Hummel update? Check your Mickey Mouse watch.

#4360 Pi brat Posted Today, 08:03 AM
Veteran

Registered Member

6,827 posts
Okay, happy now Snappy? Silly me, of course not.

Hey S for Bs, look again. I was on this thread when you posted on the other. Look at the time of my reply to your post. THAT's when I saw and responded to you.

Over and over again when I give a west poster the benefit of the doubt you prove you didn't deserve it. You are just as big an ahole and idiot as clear, nic, metroyet, and res. There are only two west posters on here that worth a flip.