August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[CaptChill]

Come on Mark, I know you are smarter than that, you are supposed to be some kind of attorney, right?

Well that explains it... He's a jerk but can't help it... it's in his DNA... but if he is an attorney too... that also explains his foul mouth...

 

[end_of_alpa]

Renegotiate?

In other words, renege, which means:

1) default on, fail to honor, go back on, break, back out of, withdraw from, retreat from, welsh on, backtrack on;

2) Break one's word/promise about
"he reneged on his campaign promises"

The typical, emotional WEST LOGIC! In short, the words are even related. Here is the real logic.: http://www.etymonline.com/.

renege (v.) 1540s, "deny, renounce, abandon," from Medieval Latin renegare, from Latin re-, here probably an intensive prefix, + negare "deny" (see deny). Meaning "change one's mind" is from 1784. Related: Reneged; reneging. perjure (v.) mid-15c. "swear falsely" (implied in perjured; late 13c. in Anglo-French), from Old French parjurer "to break one's word, renege on a promise" (11c.), from Latin periurare "to swear falsely, break one's oath" (see perjury). Reflexive sense is from 18c. renegade (n.) 1580s, "apostate," probably (with change of suffix) from Spanish renegado, originally "Christian turned Muslim," from Medieval Latin renegatus, noun use of past participle of renegare "deny" (see renege). General sense of "turncoat" is from 1660s. The form renegate, directly from Medieval Latin, is attested in English from late 14c. As an adjective from 1705. finagle (v.) 1926, American English, possibly a variant of English dialectal fainaigue "to cheat or renege" (at cards), of unknown origin. Liberman says finagle is from figgle, phonetic variant of fiddle "fidget about," frequentative of fig. Related: Finagled; finagling. renegotiate (v.) 1934, from re- "again" + negotiate. Related: Renegotiated; renegotiating. negotiate (v.) "to communicate in search of mutual agreement," 1590s, back-formation from negotiation, or else from Latin negotiatus, past participle of negotiari. In the sense of "tackle successfully" (1862), it at first meant "to clear on horseback a hedge, fence, or other obstacle" and "originated in the hunting-field; those who hunt the fox like also to hunt jocular verbal novelties" [Gowers, 1965]. Related: Negotiated; negotiating. renegotiate (v.) 1934, from re- "again" + negotiate. Related: Renegotiated; renegotiating. negotiable (adj.) 1749, from negotiate + -able, or from French négociable (17c.). Related: Negotiably; negotiability. treat (v.) c.1300, "negotiate, bargain, deal with," from Old French traiter (12c.), from Latin tractare "manage, handle, deal with," originally "drag about," frequentative of trahere (past participle tractus) "to pull, draw" (see tract (n.1)). Meaning "to entertain with food and drink by way of compliment or kindness (or bribery)" is recorded from c.1500. Sense of "deal with in speech or writing" (early 14c.) led to the use in medicine (1781), "to attempt to heal or cure." Related: Treated; treating.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Renegotiate?

In other words, renege, which means:

1) default on, fail to honor, go back on, break, back out of, withdraw from, retreat from, welsh on, backtrack on;

2) Break one's word/promise about
"he reneged on his campaign promises"

Actually, the use of the term "renegotiate" should never have been applied in the US/AW SLI. We never actually stopped the initial negotiations. There was an arbitrator who did not follow the union guidance for a "no windfall" result. (You can spin this either way, actually, since the west feels that 517 east pilots received a windfall...which, if true, further impugns the arbitrator's "award.")

So, these are continuing negotiations, not REnegotiations.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Monitor your ass*ole, it will be stampeding for the bullseye shortly. You really should recognize the signs of failure by now shouldn't you? Here's a hint, when your fake scab union puts out a "comminique" whereby they trash an arbitrator they themselves hired and hint at pursuing "all available alternate channels" you should know that you are well fk'ed and far from home. You don't speak usapian yet?

Ah, just more evidence of your obviously keen intellect. Do you work at being stupid? Is there an "Anti-Lumosity" website you have to use everyday to insure you will come up with non-sequitur blather?

Or, were you simply blessed with bottom-of-the-pool genes?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Actually, the use of the term "renegotiate" should never have been applied in the US/AW SLI. We never actually stopped the initial negotiations. There was an arbitrator who did not follow the union guidance for a "no windfall" result. (You can spin this either way, actually, since the west feels that 517 east pilots received a windfall...which, if true, further impugns the arbitrator's "award.")

So, these are continuing negotiations, not REnegotiations.

West pilots confuse facts with fiction. Marty Harper is going to put a "Whoop-ass" "whoopassssssss" on us East pilot thugs. He's going to depose and have Rachel Jeantel testify that USAPA doesn't have a LUP because they're "crazy ass crackers".

 

[cactusboy53]

You mean the LUP that Judge Silver says that USAPA has to represent the east pilots with as well? I can give you about 30000 LUP's - every legacy airline pilot in the country, UAL, CON, DL, and NWA all have elected to change the merger policy to include LOS. They further changed policy to now use three arbitrators in SLI's. What reason can you possibly think of as a reason to make all these changes? Come on Mark, I know you are smarter than that, you are supposed to be some kind of attorney, right?

Uhm, that was AFTER you chose to leave ALPA. Besides, you guys said there were a myriad of reasons that you voted out ALPA.

Hey, wasn't US Air one of the architects of the ALPA merger policy that was law when we merged? I'm pretty sure they were.

Where's that "grasping at straw" smiley face at...?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Uhm, that was AFTER you chose to leave ALPA. Besides, you guys said there were a myriad of reasons that you voted out ALPA.

Hey, wasn't US Air one of the architects of the ALPA merger policy that was law when we merged? I'm pretty sure they were.

Where's that "grasping at straw" smiley face at...?

You are so inept Dave it isn't even funny. ALPA Merger POLICY is a promise from ALPA that you should have sued. Go look in the mirror and see who is "grasping at straws". Your dumbass attorney can't even argue it correctly. Here read his closing statement in court the other day:
"MR. HARPER: Very, very brief.
He's having difficulty preparing his defense. Judge,
the issue is: What was the legitimate union purpose for doing
what they did? They know it, they have to articulate it, and I
have to beat it back.
He has no defense. He should be up there first
explaining to you what the legitimate union purpose was as a
plaintiff, and I should be trying to beat it back.
He's not preparing a defense. He has to prepare his
story." Harper has to articulate a DFR in the context of "arbitrary, discriminatory or bad faith". None of which he can prove. You and Harper. Peas in a pod. Harper can't even get "I have to beat it back" whether he is Plaintiff OR Defendant.

 

[snapthis]

Why do you think Nicolau cannot get any work these days?

Proud of trashing Nicolau, ZERO-three-four? A WWII vet who lost a leg in his service to our country. You're just another USAPA thug much like the ones who beat a WWII vet who was shot during the battle of Okinawa.

You're a ZERO. Nic is a hero.

George Nicolau
From BR Bullpen

"Born February 14, 1925
George Nicolau is an American jurist who works out of New York. Before entering college, Nicolau lost a leg during World War II. After his recovery, he turned to law. He graduated from Columbia University with his juris doctor degree and became a high-powered attorney."

88-Year-Old WWII Veteran Beaten to Death by Two Teens in Parking Lot; Suspect Photos Released
Aug. 22, 2013 8:16pm Jason Howerton

An 88-year-old World War II veteran was savagely beaten by two teenagers in a parking lot in Spokane, Wash., on Wednesday evening, KXLY-TV reports. Delbert Belton died in the hospital Thursday morning from the injuries he sustained in the brutal attack.

Belton was in the parking lot of the Eagles Lodge at around 8 p.m. on Wednesday when two male suspects assaulted him for no apparent reason.

Police have released surveillance photos of persons of interest in the homicide investigation. “They are described as young African American males of average build,” KHQ reports. They are believed to be between 16 to 19 in age and were wearing black clothes, while one suspect was seen wearing a black “do-rag,” according to police.

“Shorty,” as he was known by his friends at the Eagles Lodge, served in the U.S. Army in the Pacific during WWII and was shot in the leg during the Battle of Okinawa. He went on to work at Kaiser Aluminum at the company’s Trentwood plant for more than 30 years.

He loved playing pool, even though he claimed he was no good at it and had been a member of the Eagles Lodge for the last four months. In addition to playing pool he loved working on cars.

Belton’s wife passed away several years ago.

Police were using surveillance footage from the scene to piece together what happened. Investigators have not said what they believe the motive was in the beating. However, police say this seems to be a random attack.

KXLT-TV

 

[nycbusdriver]

Uhm, that was AFTER you chose to leave ALPA. Besides, you guys said there were a myriad of reasons that you voted out ALPA.

Hey, wasn't US Air one of the architects of the ALPA merger policy that was law when we merged? I'm pretty sure they were.

Where's that "grasping at straw" smiley face at...?

First point: YEs, we left ALPA for a myriad of reasons. Many of those are probably the exact same reasons that the AWA pilots grumbled about leaving ALPA.

Second point: The US Air MEC was NOT part of the ALPA policy change which eliminated DOH as a primary mover in seniority integration. UAL pushed that one through.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Proud of trashing Nicolau, ZERO-three-four? A WWII vet who lost a leg in his service to our country. You're just another USAPA thug much like the ones who beat a WWII vet who was shot during the battle of Okinawa.

You're a ZERO. Nic is a hero.

George Nicolau
From BR Bullpen

"Born February 14, 1925
George Nicolau is an American jurist who works out of New York. Before entering college, Nicolau lost a leg during World War II. After his recovery, he turned to law. He graduated from Columbia University with his juris doctor degree and became a high-powered attorney."

88-Year-Old WWII Veteran Beaten to Death by Two Teens in Parking Lot; Suspect Photos Released
Aug. 22, 2013 8:16pm Jason Howerton

An 88-year-old World War II veteran was savagely beaten by two teenagers in a parking lot in Spokane, Wash., on Wednesday evening, KXLY-TV reports. Delbert Belton died in the hospital Thursday morning from the injuries he sustained in the brutal attack.

Belton was in the parking lot of the Eagles Lodge at around 8 p.m. on Wednesday when two male suspects assaulted him for no apparent reason.

Police have released surveillance photos of persons of interest in the homicide investigation. “They are described as young African American males of average build,” KHQ reports. They are believed to be between 16 to 19 in age and were wearing black clothes, while one suspect was seen wearing a black “do-rag,” according to police.

“Shorty,” as he was known by his friends at the Eagles Lodge, served in the U.S. Army in the Pacific during WWII and was shot in the leg during the Battle of Okinawa. He went on to work at Kaiser Aluminum at the company’s Trentwood plant for more than 30 years.

He loved playing pool, even though he claimed he was no good at it and had been a member of the Eagles Lodge for the last four months. In addition to playing pool he loved working on cars.

Belton’s wife passed away several years ago.

Police were using surveillance footage from the scene to piece together what happened. Investigators have not said what they believe the motive was in the beating. However, police say this seems to be a random attack.

KXLT-TV

Tragic story. No one should have to endure what Mr. Belton did.

But please tell us how this relates at all to George Nicolau's service record?

And how does George Nicolau's service record relate to his work as an arbitrator?

Take my advice, it's money well spent (only $40 co-pay) to go visit a neurologist. The earlier the better, probably.

 

[Metroyet]

Metroyet is a former east pilot furloughed and hired at the west. That is why he avoids all discussion on his motivations here. He is bitter and angry for the incorrect decisions that he has made. He has only himself to blame but directs his anger towards others.

Oh Puh-leeezzze. Nope. Not even close. Why do you guys care so much about something entirely irrelevent? I don't care to know a single personal detail about anybody. Don't care, it's all irrelevent to the situation. I NEVER worked for Us Air OR America West in any capacity whatsoever.

Believe it or don't, I could care less.

 

[snapthis]

Tragic story. No one should have to endure what Mr. Belton did.

But please tell us how this relates at all to George Nicolau's service record?

And how does George Nicolau's service record relate to his work as an arbitrator?

Take my advice, it's money well spent (only $40 co-pay) to go visit a neurologist. The earlier the better, probably.

Yes, a tragedy indeed. It's a sad commentary of the society we live today. The disregard of basic moral values and the result of poor or no parenting where kids have no guidance. I was lucky to have a strict upbringing, although not appreciative at times, looking back and into my 50's have more of an appreciation.

It was the East pilots who brought, Nic to the table if memory serves me right. You wanted someine you can push around, you always had the boot ALPA card to play if things did not turn out your way.

I have confidence that justice will prevail, the courts will right the wrongs endured by the West Class and the result will be a run on EAP benefits by Usapians.

 

[snapthis]

Thursday, May 14, 2009 Federal jury rules in US Airways pilots' dispute over seniority issues

""A federal court jury in Phoenix ruled yesterday in favor of six America West pilots who brought suit against the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA), the union that represents the pilots of US Airways. The jury was tasked with deciding whether USAPA has been fairly representing all of the more than 5,000 pilots of the merged US Airways, i.e., those who worked for America West prior to the 2005 merger, as well as those who worked for the 'old' US Airways.

The underlying issue is a dispute over seniority arising from the merger of America West and US Airways in 2005. US Airways pilots have favored merging the seniority lists based on date of hire. Former America West pilots rejected this method: since the 'old' US Airways had been in business much longer than America West, a seniority list based on date of hire would necessarily favor US Airways pilots.

The seniority dispute eventually went to arbitration about two years ago. The arbitrator devised a blended seniority list that put several hundred senior US Airways pilots at the top of the list, and then ranked the rest according to a ratio based on their status at the time of the merger. Furloughed US Airways pilots were put at the bottom of the list.

Then last year, the pilots voted out the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) as their collective bargaining unit, and formed a new independent union, USAPA, to represent them. ALPA had represented the pilots during the arbitration. Not surprisingly, the vote to certify USAPA was close. Of the 5,238 pilots eligible to vote, 2,723 voted for USAPA and 2,254 voted for ALPA.

Once certified, USAPA proceeded to press for seniority integration based primarily on date of hire. Most former America West pilots wanted the arbitrated method for seniority integration to be used.

Six former America West pilots ultimately filed the civil suit against USAPA, claiming the union was not fairly representing their interests. Yesterday the jury agreed with them by finding USAPA liable in the Duty of Fair Representation lawsuit.

USAPA plans to appeal the decision. In a press release issued yesterday after the jury's decision was announced, Mike Cleary, president of USAPA, said that the union "intends to appeal the case to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and, if necessary, the United States Supreme Court."

“While USAPA would have, of course, preferred to prevail in the current setting, thereby allowing the pilot group to come together and work towards an improved contract, we fully expected and planned for this contingency,” said Cleary. “Again, given the facts of law, we are very confident of our ability to prevail eventually, in proving the absolute right of a union to bargain over the complete terms of its members’ working agreement. Having so planned, our legal team is already working on an expedited appeal and stay of any proposed injunctive relief.”

Pilots at the merged carrier have continued to work under separate contracts since the 2005 merger. A major stumbling block to negotiating a unified contract has been the contentious dispute over seniority integration.""
Posted by B. N. Sullivan at 12:55

I'd like to thank the 2723 Usapians for voting in the abomination known as USAPA.

The West Class will get justice that was only delayed by the 9th. The JURY got it right even though Yousapians and you know who you are blame Judge Wake. Another blame game, scapegoating bunch of thugs who take no responsibility for being STUPID.

It's something you can't fix.

 

[fatherabraham]

Oh Puh-leeezzze. ...............

Believe it or don't, I could care less.

Wow, 2084 post on a subject you have no Opinion on / " care less".

Are we to believe anything you type ?

FA

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yes, a tragedy indeed. It's a sad commentary of the society we live today. The disregard of basic moral values and the result of poor or no parenting where kids have no guidance. I was lucky to have a strict upbringing, although not appreciative at times, looking back and into my 50's have more of an appreciation.

It was the East pilots who brought, Nic to the table if memory serves me right. You wanted someine you can push around, you always had the boot ALPA card to play if things did not turn out your way.

I have confidence that justice will prevail, the courts will right the wrongs endured by the West Class and the result will be a run on EAP benefits by Usapians.

Thursday, May 14, 2009 Federal jury rules in US Airways pilots' dispute over seniority issues

""A federal court jury in Phoenix ruled yesterday in favor of six America West pilots who brought suit against the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA), the union that represents the pilots of US Airways. The jury was tasked with deciding whether USAPA has been fairly representing all of the more than 5,000 pilots of the merged US Airways, i.e., those who worked for America West prior to the 2005 merger, as well as those who worked for the 'old' US Airways.

.....yada yada yada...

You pompous, clueless blowhard.

"Endure" on, Oh Mighty Spartan!