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August 2013 Pilot Discussion

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Phoenix posted: [background=rgb(242, 242, 242)]cactusboy53, on 02 September 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:[/background]


This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

I don't even know what this means. Did I win something? RR
 
Phoenix posted: [background=rgb(242, 242, 242)]cactusboy53, on 02 September 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:[/background]


This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

I don't even know what this means. Did I win something? RR

Yes, a great honor. CB53 has put you on ignore-although I'm sure he can't wait to read every single post.
 
Phoenix posted: [background=rgb(242, 242, 242)]cactusboy53, on 02 September 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:[/background]


This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

I don't even know what this means. Did I win something? RR

In fairness it was sort of a prediction that CB would soon announce to everyone that he is ignoring you.. but, yes, if he does bother to take the time to announce he is ignoring you then some may infer he has lost, and you have indeed won!
 
Phoenix posted: [background=rgb(242, 242, 242)]cactusboy53, on 02 September 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:[/background]


This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

I don't even know what this means. Did I win something? RR

Congratulations on your Cactusboy ignore list selection. I have also been honored with same award.
 
In fairness it was sort of a prediction that CB would soon announce to everyone that he is ignoring you.. but, yes, if he does take the time to announce he is ignoring you then you have indeed won!

Such power exists? I had no idea. I vow to forever only use my abilities for the good of DOH. RR (do I need a costume..no wait, I am wearing one!)
 
That's okay, he will just SYIC!

I wonder if his feelings will be hurt if we don't show up?

Merely "SYIC"? I'm certain you meant not the least bit of personal disrespect, but you carelessly omitted the trademark "cupcake" and "heroic" rantings of "This is Sparta!" 🙂
 
Always an F en excuse. You accuse us of not agreeing to a BS flawed process. And everyone knows it was crooked from the beginning. longevity does matter, and ALPA merger policy was changed because it was a shame. Opportunities for the east on a ratio basis to capture their per merged attrition should of been employed. Now stop trying to step over other people's jobs who are 10 years older than you for your selfish gain. In no way can you justify it. Now go look in the mirror, I have lost respect for someone I thought at least got it. You will be just fine without the NIC. Most EASt will be screwed with it

I already said I felt longevity should matter. Ask yourself, why did we end up having to go to arbitration in the first place? If I remember correctly it wasn't because the west drew a hard line on longevity or furloughs, it was DOH. You still have pilots on the east trying to control the union and push for it. I just read the new CAL/UAL list and it is most certainly not DOH.

I didn't know wanting to be a line holding group 2 FO in PHX was selfish. After all, that's what I was prior to the merger. Silly me, I keep forgetting that the merger was for the sole benefit of the east.

Bean
 
Furloghed UAL went above some CAL Captains, is what I heard.

Absolutely untrue.

You can't count VOLUNTARY furloughs, as some of them are VERY senior and still hold their relative position. The highest involuntary furlough is about 86%, and nowhere near a Captain bid anywhere in the system. About 700+ furloughs were placed with active CAL pilots. Also, UA furloughees would be the first ones subject to another furlough (out of seniority order) in a future head count reduction. (any of you easties ever consider offering that gem up?)

This is nothing even close to a DOH integration. Went much closer to relative seniority. No special carve out for WB positions. Hybrid method was definitely a creative work of art. CAL proposal was categorically dismissed as a blatant seniority grab. UAL proposal was adopted almost in it's entirety with one major exception. The 50/50 status-category/longevity ratio was altered to 65/35. So Longevity was only given a 35% weighting. Bottom 1/3 of UA list loses 7 to 8+ years. UA was shown to be the stronger airline financially at the 2010 merger date, although both needed a partner for future success.

Conditions and restrictions are minimal and weak. Arbitrators reaffirmed their reluctance to complicated conditions and restrictions. All fences come down in 5 years or after 25th 787, which will actually be in about 2-3 years. CAL gets all the benefit of UA's MUCH larger widebody fleet,and domicile advantage. (How many Guam/EWR pilots will prefer to live in LAX/SFO/DEN/IAD/ORD???)

UA side feels vindicated by arbitrator's written opinion of the award. Both sides are grumbling, but CAL side probably more so since Katz did his typical poor job of managing expectations. (Sound familiar, easties?)

Bottom line is that your all or nothing DOH stance sealed your fate. Had you attempted to get a little creative, and discussed longevity weighted against category/status, you would have come up with a better deal in arbitration, saving yourselves from years of legal fees, ridiculously high union dues, and lost wages and benefits. You decided to go "all in" and have paid the price. UAL and CAL have now taken our lumps, will accept the result of binding arbitration, and move on. (huh... what a concept.)
 
Absolutely untrue.

You can't count VOLUNTARY furloughs, as some of them are VERY senior and still hold their relative position. The highest involuntary furlough is about 86%, and nowhere near a Captain bid anywhere in the system. About 700+ furloughs were placed with active CAL pilots. Also, UA furloughees would be the first ones subject to another furlough (out of seniority order) in a future head count reduction. (any of you easties ever consider offering that gem up?)

This is nothing even close to a DOH integration. Went much closer to relative seniority. No special carve out for WB positions. Hybrid method was definitely a creative work of art. CAL proposal was categorically dismissed as a blatant seniority grab. UAL proposal was adopted almost in it's entirety with one major exception. The 50/50 status-category/longevity ratio was altered to 65/35. So Longevity was only given a 35% weighting. Bottom 1/3 of UA list loses 7 to 8+ years. UA was shown to be the stronger airline financially at the 2010 merger date, although both needed a partner for future success.

Conditions and restrictions are minimal and weak. Arbitrators reaffirmed their reluctance to complicated conditions and restrictions. All fences come down in 5 years or after 25th 787, which will actually be in about 2-3 years. CAL gets all the benefit of UA's MUCH larger widebody fleet,and domicile advantage. (How many Guam/EWR pilots will prefer to live in LAX/SFO/DEN/IAD/ORD???)

UA side feels vindicated by arbitrator's written opinion of the award. Both sides are grumbling, but CAL side probably more so since Katz did his typical poor job of managing expectations. (Sound familiar, easties?)

Bottom line is that your all or nothing DOH stance sealed your fate. Had you attempted to get a little creative, and discussed longevity weighted against category/status, you would have come up with a better deal in arbitration, saving yourselves from years of legal fees, ridiculously high union dues, and lost wages and benefits. You decided to go "all in" and have paid the price. UAL and CAL have now taken our lumps, will accept the result of binding arbitration, and move on. (huh... what a concept.)

You haven't moved on at all.

You are still over here grumbling to people trying to belittle folks about something that doesn't even matter to you. :lol: Not that anyone is asking you to move on already. We just ask for some integrity. If you are here grousing then you are here grousing. And you fit in just fine! :lol:
 
I already said I felt longevity should matter. Ask yourself, why did we end up having to go to arbitration in the first place? If I remember correctly it wasn't because the west drew a hard line on longevity or furloughs, it was DOH.
Bean


And DOH it will always be it with me and a few thousand of my flying comrades. There is no need to quibble on that. It is a much redder line than currently drawn by Obama. In fact it is black, solid, and unwavering. Longevity has a nice ring to it, but it still is not DOH. As far as we have come, with so much lost in the process, I only feel stronger about a union principle that has stood for decades. Not some wishy washy compromise or settlement. I have 8 years to go, and my single vote on whatever referendum will always be that "seniority matters." RR
 
And DOH it will always be it with me and a few thousand of my flying comrades. There is no need to quibble on that. It is a much redder line than currently drawn by Obama.

And in the eyes of the world USAPA has even less credibility than Obama, if that's possible. :lol:

In fact it is black, solid, and unwavering.

I think you've been spending too much time with Claxon.
 
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