August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

If you are here grousing then you are here grousing.

And here you are grousing about grousing.

 

[traderjake]

What was given the greater weight in the award, slotting or LOS?

UAL proposal was adopted almost in it's entirety with one major exception. The 50/50 status-category/longevity ratio was altered to 65/35. So Longevity was only given a 35% weighting.

Status-Category was given twice the weighting as LOS.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Both sides are grumbling,

There it is. You said it.

The mark of a fair SLI arbitration. Always has been.

When one side is livid, and the other is "high fiving" each other down the PHX concourses, that says a lot.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Status-Category was given twice the weighting as LOS.

But the fact is, longevity WAS given weight. Something that was conspicuously absent in the Nicolau abortion.

 

[Pi brat]

Ask yourself, why did we end up having to go to arbitration in the first place?

Bean

Name a recent SLI that didn't go to arbitration. The west's line in the sand of not a single furlough above Odell had much to do with it too. How could the east agree to go along with that?

I just thought I might get back the seat I held, IN MY BASE, back in 2001. The one that was still there, with the aircraft we brought to the merger. Silly me.

You never answered my question. When did US liquidate?

 

[Pi brat]

Bottom line is that your all or nothing DOH stance sealed your fate

It wasn't DOH, it was LOS. So you are in the "you wouldn't move, you got punished" camp. Shocker.

Congrats on the list and being done with it. Seriously.

 

[Phoenix]

And here you are grousing about grousing.

Did you claim to have "moved on already" too? No.

Or are you admitting to grousing too? I think you fit in just fine if you are honest that you are grousing!

 

[traderjake]

Name a recent SLI that didn't go to arbitration.

Southwest - Airtran.

 

[flyer63]

Yeah because the AirTran guys were given an ultimatum and they didn't want to end up like Midwest Express

 

[flyer63]

I already said I felt longevity should matter. Ask yourself, why did we end up having to go to arbitration in the first place? If I remember correctly it wasn't because the west drew a hard line on longevity or furloughs, it was DOH. You still have pilots on the east trying to control the union and push for it. I just read the new CAL/UAL list and it is most certainly not DOH.

I didn't know wanting to be a line holding group 2 FO in PHX was selfish. After all, that's what I was prior to the merger. Silly me, I keep forgetting that the merger was for the sole benefit of the east.

Bean

Reason your back on RSV is because Parker shrunk your network to the bare bones. I was not for DOH, but nobody asked me

 

[flyer63]

Absolutely untrue.

You can't count VOLUNTARY furloughs, as some of them are VERY senior and still hold their relative position. The highest involuntary furlough is about 86%, and nowhere near a Captain bid anywhere in the system. About 700+ furloughs were placed with active CAL pilots. Also, UA furloughees would be the first ones subject to another furlough (out of seniority order) in a future head count reduction. (any of you easties ever consider offering that gem up?)

This is nothing even close to a DOH integration. Went much closer to relative seniority. No special carve out for WB positions. Hybrid method was definitely a creative work of art. CAL proposal was categorically dismissed as a blatant seniority grab. UAL proposal was adopted almost in it's entirety with one major exception. The 50/50 status-category/longevity ratio was altered to 65/35. So Longevity was only given a 35% weighting. Bottom 1/3 of UA list loses 7 to 8+ years. UA was shown to be the stronger airline financially at the 2010 merger date, although both needed a partner for future success.

Conditions and restrictions are minimal and weak. Arbitrators reaffirmed their reluctance to complicated conditions and restrictions. All fences come down in 5 years or after 25th 787, which will actually be in about 2-3 years. CAL gets all the benefit of UA's MUCH larger widebody fleet,and domicile advantage. (How many Guam/EWR pilots will prefer to live in LAX/SFO/DEN/IAD/ORD???)

UA side feels vindicated by arbitrator's written opinion of the award. Both sides are grumbling, but CAL side probably more so since Katz did his typical poor job of managing expectations. (Sound familiar, easties?)

Bottom line is that your all or nothing DOH stance sealed your fate. Had you attempted to get a little creative, and discussed longevity weighted against category/status, you would have come up with a better deal in arbitration, saving yourselves from years of legal fees, ridiculously high union dues, and lost wages and benefits. You decided to go "all in" and have paid the price. UAL and CAL have now taken our lumps, will accept the result of binding arbitration, and move on. (huh... what a concept.)

Voluntary or involuntary makes no difference. I stayed out as long as possible as well because I started and still have another business. Bottom line most senior furloughed pilot is 70 percent. And NYC bus is right if both sides are a little pissed then things are good.

 

[traderjake]

Or are you admitting to grousing too? I think you fit in just fine if you are honest that you are grousing!

.

 

[Phoenix]

 

[traderjake]

You're older than I thought.

 

[nic4us]

You never answered my question. When did US liquidate?

In 2005 when Barbell Aquisition merged with America West Holding Corp. Who in turn acquired US in a reverse acquisition forming LCC.