August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

You know that history contortion thing never fails to amaze us either, a seniority list we are supposed to use, never put in a JCBA, with rules set by an outside organization, sounds like an internal union dispute to me but hell, 1800 TWA on the AA list?, When PHX gets closed that's a history repeater!

When Phoenix closes, how long do you expect to be furloughed?

 

[N924PS]

When Phoenix closes, how long do you expect to be furloughed?

He won't be furloughed. He won't be on the property except perhaps riding in the back on a pass.

 

[snapthis]

Thats the read I get too.Had a quick conversation with an Eastie 330 Capt. the other day. His message was to the effect, "We're going to let APA have the list they want as long as the East guys are protected, we will not go to arbitration"Thats just one mans opinion.... But Stevie Wonder could see that coming...

They won't go arbitration because it is a form of compromise which is not an option when they hold the majority and can evade the results. You can bet when they become the minority, they willl look arbitration in a different light. They think they can place furloughed pilots above actively flying pilots of the acquiring airline. It's interesting reading their previous publications, very telling.

Source: US Airwaves 2002 "Under ALPA Merger Policy, the employment data the merger representatives are required to determine and exchange include each pilot’s date of hire, date of birth, seniority number, and furlough time. In addition, one recognized method of integrat- ing seniority lists is by length of service, which is usually defined to exclude time spent on furlough.A pilot’s status as a furloughee at the time of the merger announcement or arbitration hear- ing may also bear significantly on the pilot’s placement on the merged list. Because reduc-tions in force occur in inverse order of seniority, furloughs and juniority go hand in hand. Be- yond that, the absence of current employment and uncertainties about future prospects are among the equities likely to affect a furloughee’s seniority placement.No pilot, regardless of furlough status, can be guaranteed any particular placement on a merged list. The only certainty in seniority integration is that the outcome is never certain until the merger representatives reach an agreement or, failing a negotiated solution, the arbitrator issues an award. Each case presents its own facts and equities, and each requires a resolution tailor-made to the situation presented. With that said, the past provides several examples of arbitrators and negotiators grappling with the proper seniority placement of furloughees. These precedents, while not determinative of future proceedings, shed light on the kinds of considerations likely to come into play."

Why should it be any surprise after reading this article that an arbitrator placed furloughed pilots below actively flying pilots?

 

[cltrat]

Oh it is settled. The east pilots just still can not accept reality and understand their obligations to use the Nicolau.

Yes, usapa and the east pilots are still pissing on the west.

Now they are telling the court that it will be a three way do over but only usapa can be at the M/B table with east pilots telling the west pilots what is best for us.

Could you guys hurry up and kick usapa to the curb?

clear away from this board I am sure you're a nice enough person but you and others might be better served to stay out of the predict[on business given the track record of such predictions.
Just stay quiet and if you win come on here and dog their ass because you will deserve it
until then you just make yourself look foolish when you miss

 

[snapthis]

He won't be furloughed. He won't be on the property except perhaps riding in the back on a pass.

It's a nice benefit for him to have when looking for a new job.

 

[EastUS1]

One in particular strikes a chord:

"Is your goal the greater good, or only your own needs?"

When you disenfranchise a third of the pilot group by forming an association with the purpose of evading an agreement, is that for the greater good?

Yeah, sure thing....."strikes a chord" my arse. I can always use some more hearty laughs here, so tell us all again how your wanting to place new hires ahead of people with 16+ years worked is even supposedly for "the greater good"?...Or is it simply and very obviously just to serve "your own needs"?

snapthis: "It's a noble cause, trying to cheat fellow pilots.."...? So you would strive to have us believe, it seems. 😉

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

He won't be furloughed. He won't be on the property except perhaps riding in the back on a pass.

You omitted with my first class upgrade but we will let it slide!

 

[Ames]

Thats funny.

TWA was an asset purchase with conditional employment offers.

How history has a way of being contorted...

Oh, but since you've turned down that road.....

AA has closed or is in the process of closing every last TWA crew base. We have about 25 TWA jets still flying, and what, 1800 of their pilots on the list?

Give your head a shake.

IMO, they should have been stapled, just like the FA's

(stirrr, stirrr, stirrrr)

You will fit in very well with the eastholes. I just can't wait to deal with yet another group of self entitled assholes.

 

[snapthis]

Yeah, sure thing....."strikes a chord" my arse. I can always use some more hearty laughs here, so tell us all again how your wanting to place new hires ahead of people with 16+ years worked is even supposedly for "the greater good"?...Or is it simply and very obviously just to serve "your own needs"?

snapthis: "It's a noble cause, trying to cheat fellow pilots.."...? So you would strive to have us believe, it seems. 😉

Do years of service include logging flight time in a lay z boy? Our pilots were displaced as a direct result of this so-called merger. East union, east managers=west furloughs.

It looks like that lottery ticket has been cashed.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Thats funny.

TWA was an asset purchase with conditional employment offers.

How history has a way of being contorted...

Oh, but since you've turned down that road.....

AA has closed or is in the process of closing every last TWA crew base. We have about 25 TWA jets still flying, and what, 1800 of their pilots on the list?

Give your head a shake.

IMO, they should have been stapled, just like the FA's

(stirrr, stirrr, stirrrr)

AMR pilots revisionist view. "The President of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) Laura Glading, stated in an interview with the Fort Worth Star Telegram that the decision to strip the TWA flight attendants of their earned seniority should not have happened when American and TWA merged in 2001. Sitting next to Ms. Glading was US Airways CEO Doug Parker. Ms. Glading said it was “a mistake” and “we really screwed up on that big time.” Despite that admission, APFA has made no effort to correct its mistake." http://interact.stltoday.com/pr/business/PR031813090812238 Looking forward to see APA find out how real McCaskill-Bond strips APA pilots of their "unity". You epitomize the true meaning of the "Hitler Youth" that you are. I fully support the former TWA employees.

 

[Claxon]

You will fit in very well with the eastholes. I just can't wait to deal with yet another group of self entitled assholes.

Prechillil and Captain Gay are under the impression they will come to an equitable coexistence with their APA brothers. Separate ops will be a distant yet fond memory for them.

 

[Phoenix]

SLI has been delayed. The merger will get the delays to stop. We could have had this thing settled in 2009 when a jury found USAPA guilty in DFR I. They brought their "big guns" and Hudson heros to court to further USAPA's objectives to screw West pilots by evading binding arbitration. It's a noble cause, trying to cheat fellow pilots, at least in their minds and to those who supported them.

I picked up a book the other day and read a few quotes by Sully Sullenberger, author and retired US Airways pilot.

One in particular strikes a chord:

"Is your goal the greater good, or only your own needs?"

When you disenfranchise a third of the pilot group by forming an association with the purpose of evading an agreement, is that for the greater good?

SUMMARY:

"I believe it is settled, but no one is listening to me. Since you asked, I'll tell you how bad my life is...please agree with me that those meanies are being mean. Please. Pretty please."

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Do years of service include logging flight time in a lay z boy? Our pilots were displaced as a direct result of this so-called merger. East union, east managers=west furloughs.

It looks like that lottery ticket has been cashed.

Displaced to where? New Union, Unprofitable Hubs= Unprofitable groups layoffs! You were never going to get "DUAL RATIFICATION" for any contract with the "NIC" attached, DUI DOUG was never going to pony up enough cash to make it offset the "WEST" WINDFALL!

 

[snapthis]

Displaced to where? New Union, Unprofitable Hubs= Unprofitable groups layoffs! You were never going to get "DUAL RATIFICATION" for any contract with the "NIC" attached, DUI DOUG was never going to pony up enough cash to make it offset the "WEST" WINDFALL!

America West Holdings and Douggie were doing well enough to put a deal together to acquire US Airways.

They were also smart enough to take advantage of a labor force willing to work for less than their West counterparts.

 

[Claxon]

They were also smart enough to take advantage of a labor force willing to work for less than their West counterparts.

You made your Ceo's dependent on a weak labor force. Do the math hypocrite.

1/2 a million more in salary than the west in the ten years leading up to the merger, this does not count pension and other benefits.

http://web.mit.edu/a...T PERSONNEL.htm

http://flitetime.net/franke.jpg