August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

You can't fix stupid...and that's what they were. They did exactly what they said and briefed they would NOT do. 40' above the runway, thrust at idle, protections deliberately defeated and speed decaying below Vref. Could have been a 737 for all it mattered. This is a poor example to make your argument with. These boys went to jail for their stupidity.

Points taken, and no argument whatsoever about you can't fix stupid. I can't share your thought that a 737 might not have provided better results though: Autopilot/Throttles instantly clicked off with firewall thrust applied, rather than any duh!?...what's it doing?...why ain't it climbing?, would've likely offered a far less tragic outcome there, imo. No matter really. We don't design or build 'em. We just fly 'em, and nothing we say here's gonna' change how the industry moguls make their purchasing decisions.

 

[EastUS1]

..... if the crew ain't bellyaching once in awhile, they ain't really crew.

That much is axiomatic. 🙂

 

[nycbusdriver]

Agreed sir, regardless of manufacturer, and I've never been able to make myself a huge fan of having any aircraft's current software/"ghost-in-the-machine"/etc be empowered to out "think" pilots. Just the infamous video of that airbus slowly settling into trees left a hefty and lasting impression. None can reasonably argue that had those pilots a coupla' magic buttons to disconnect automated controls in favor of direct human inputs, that it would've produced that tragic result. In the early phases of F16 deployment; no small number became the USAF basis of the sad term "Lawn darts", until it was discovered that just some unpredicted fraying of wiring bundles was enough to bring them down, out of control. There's a lot to be said in favor of good old fashioned, cable actuated controls based on direct human input, at least to have as a backup...with which idea; I believe us to both be on essentially the same page. I've yet to see any computer equipped with a survival instinct..."H.A.L. 9000" not withstanding. 🙂

Actually, that Airbus pilot was waiting on the software to automatically add power. Meantime, he passed up the opportunity to push the thrust levers up until it was too late. A Boeing 727 would have done the exact same thing, except no one flying a 727 would have waited on the software to do something it wasn't programmed to do.

 

[A320 Driver]

Actually, that Airbus pilot was waiting on the software to automatically add power. Meantime, he passed up the opportunity to push the thrust levers up until it was too late. A Boeing 727 would have done the exact same thing, except no one flying a 727 would have waited on the software to do something it wasn't programmed to do.

Crazy thing was, the very protection that they were depending on to add power, they had defeated already by going below...I think it's 50' radio altimeter. The whole thing was a goat roping from the start and probably why they ended up in jail.

 

[Phoenix]

"Captain Asseline, First Officer Mazieres, two Air France officials and the president of the flying club sponsoring the air show were all charged with involuntary manslaughter. All five were found guilty."

 

[mrbreeze]

Actually, that Airbus pilot was waiting on the software to automatically add power. Meantime, he passed up the opportunity to push the thrust levers up until it was too late. A Boeing 727 would have done the exact same thing, except no one flying a 727 would have waited on the software to do something it wasn't programmed to do.

Good point...."Hal" was never expected to take over on a 727......the pilot knew that he had to allow time for spool up and advanced the thrust levers about 7 seconds before he needed the power.

 

[snapthis]

Videos produced by the america west pilots, they will soon be American Airlines pilots.

Troubling.

http://www.youtube.c...ternetTrashTalk

Not so troubling, union representation once again.

Allied Pilots Association

Headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas near Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, the Allied Pilots Association (APA) serves as the certified collective bargaining agent for all 10,000 American Airlines pilots. APA was founded in 1963 and is the largest independent pilots’ union in the world. APA provides a broad range of representation services for its members, and also devotes more than 20 percent of its dues income to support aviation safety.

 

[Claxon]

Not so troubling, union representation once again.

Allied Pilots Association

Headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas near Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, the Allied Pilots Association (APA) serves as the certified collective bargaining agent for all 10,000 American Airlines pilots. APA was founded in 1963 and is the largest independent pilots’ union in the world. APA provides a broad range of representation services for its members, and also devotes more than 20 percent of its dues income to support aviation safety.

When will The Back Bay Band start production with Brice and Cat3 Productions on Silver Top Pests?

 

[cactusboy53]

Ah, sweet wonderful bliss...

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Claxon (just another psycho voice in the wilderness). View it anyway?

Soon, Claxy. Very soon.

 

[luvthe9]

When will The Back Bay Band start production with Brice and Cat3 Productions on Silver Top Pests?

Apparently the young lady is having trouble getting into her jeans. Standby.

 

[luvthe9]

Ah, sweet wonderful bliss...

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Claxon (just another psycho voice in the wilderness). View it anyway?

Soon, Claxy. Very soon.

I don' t know. A guy telling his group to give all their kids college money to a clueless lawyer is bordering on psycho.

 

[westcoastflyer]

I don' t know. A guy telling his group to give all their kids college money to a clueless lawyer is bordering on psycho.

You gotta be kidding. Talk about a group of pilots who have really screwed their families, especially their kids. The East pilots' "leadership" have selfishly cost all of their pilots well over $100,000 a piece, plus countless lifestyle improvements, by walking out of contract negotiations years ago. For what, to pay countless lawyers millions of dollars, so a relatively small number of pilots could upgrade a couple of years sooner. Even the few that did upgrade a little bit sooner, have still made less money than if they would have gotten the Kirby + pay rates for the last five or six years. Everyone else, both East and West pilots, have paid dearly for this>

 

[N924PS]

You gotta be kidding. Talk about a group of pilots who have really screwed their families, especially their kids. The East pilots' "leadership" have selfishly cost all of their pilots well over $100,000 a piece, plus countless lifestyle improvements, by walking out of contract negotiations years ago. For what, to pay countless lawyers millions of dollars, so a relatively small number of pilots could upgrade a couple of years sooner. Even the few that did upgrade a little bit sooner, have still made less money than if they would have gotten the Kirby + pay rates for the last five or six years. Everyone else, both East and West pilots, have paid dearly for this>

Good post.....

If Parker had been willing to sweeten the pot early on a JCBA including the Nicolau Award would have passed years ago.

Regrettably, he chose to be an opportunist and has saved around 800 billion dollars in pilot labor costs while he maintains corporate "neutrality" on the seniority issue.

 

[A320 Driver]

Good post.....

If Parker had been willing to sweeten the pot early on a JCBA including the Nicolau Award would have passed years ago.

Regrettably, he chose to be an opportunist and has saved around 800 billion dollars in pilot labor costs while he maintains corporate "neutrality" on the seniority issue.

I wouldn't call them neutral now since the company lawyer walked into Judge Silver's court saying "RIPE".

 

[Phoenix]

When will The Back Bay Band start production with Brice and Cat3 Productions on Silver Top Pests?