August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

 

[FL430]

Good post.....

If Parker had been willing to sweeten the pot early on a JCBA including the Nicolau Award would have passed years ago.

Regrettably, he chose to be an opportunist and has saved around 800 billion dollars in pilot labor costs while he maintains corporate "neutrality" on the seniority issue.

800 billion? Did you graduate from high school or get a GED?

 

[flyer63]

I wouldn't call them neutral now since the company lawyer walked into Judge Silver's court saying "RIPE".

I agree. I wrote my DCA rep why we couldn't file a grievance as to why the company is sticking their nose where they said it doesn't belong. He said, many pilots expressed the same concerns. But he said it was an MOU and not a contract so we could not file a grievance.

 

[FL430]

I wouldn't call them neutral now since the company lawyer walked into Judge Silver's court saying "RIPE".

Doesn't matter. The 9th circuit defined for everyone when it would be ripe. Do you think they will now go back and re-define the parameters of ripeness from their previous definition? Judge Silvers' law clerks and paralegals have already or soon will be briefing her that her ultimate decision will be scrutinized closely and will most likely land back on the doorstep of the 9th. As if she didn't already know that though. What would you do if you were her?

 

[flyer63]

Ah, sweet wonderful bliss...

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Claxon (just another psycho voice in the wilderness). View it anyway?

Soon, Claxy. Very soon.

Why don't you stop with your child remarks... The whole cupcake ..... Soon thing, really grow up

 

[N924PS]

800 billion? Did you graduate from high school or get a GED?

Yes, it should have read 800 million. Good catch.

Parker is still rich and you left a bunch of money in his pocket..

 

[traderjake]

You gotta be kidding. Talk about a group of pilots who have really screwed their families, especially their kids. The East pilots' "leadership" have selfishly cost all of their pilots well over $100,000 a piece, plus countless lifestyle improvements, by walking out of contract negotiations years ago.

USAPA, real men of genius.

 

[A320 Driver]

Doesn't matter. The 9th circuit defined for everyone when it would be ripe. Do you think they will now go back and re-define the parameters of ripeness from their previous definition? Judge Silvers' law clerks and paralegals have already or soon will be briefing her that her ultimate decision will be scrutinized closely and will most likely land back on the doorstep of the 9th. As if she didn't already know that though. What would you do if you were her?

Case dismissed until you have a JCBA and a SLI that can show me how you were harmed...per the 9th.

 

[cleardirect]

Case dismissed until you have a JCBA and a SLI that can show me how you were harmed...per the 9th.

You had better go back and read what the ninth said.

Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA's
seniority proposal


The airline responded.
The parties completed negotiations.
The membership ratified the CBA. LCC, AMR, APP and the UCC have all said it is a contract. At POR there will be nothing contingent. Done deal.

Nowhere does it say we have to wait for ANOTHER SLI.

Using usapa's own arguments the MOU is seniority neutral. Neutral is usapa proposal. Replacing a final and binding arbitration with nothing is harm.

At POR this case is unquestionably ripe and usapa has no argument against it. My bet is judge Silver waits for the POR to rule. That way she removes any question of ripeness. The same ripeness that she disagrees with the ninth circuit.

The west has 8 years of proof of harm.

 

[cactusboy53]

I agree. I wrote my DCA rep why we couldn't file a grievance as to why the company is sticking their nose where they said it doesn't belong. He said, many pilots expressed the same concerns. But he said it was an MOU and not a contract so we could not file a grievance.

Uhm, a grievance is a function of an divergence from a contract. LCC is a partner in the three way agreement on HOW to satisfy the seniority integration between America West (the acquiring party), US Air and LCC (the new corporate entity). In fact this will be SAME KIND of agreement between parties in this new merger (LCC, APA & the "New American Airlines").

Mr. Parker sent a letter to ALL pilots of the NEW US Airways indicating that the arbitration process and final product (the Nicolau Seniority List) met all of the conditions that the new company had placed on seniority integration. Thus, one of the involved parties stated its acceptance.

The problem that we have is that one party REFUSED to abide by that agreement, balked and ginned up a new bargaining agent for the purpose of evading that seniority list at any and all costs. The company took the "we're neutral" position because is placed them in the advantageous position of pocketing ALL the money that we could have had in 1 (if not 2) JCBA's (about 800 Million dollars, NEVER to see your pocket or mine).

Now really, thinking with your head (and not your heart).....which way do you think the courts will ultimately decide? If Parker is forced to decide (if the courts drag on and he needs us to move forward), which list keeps LCC & APA out of legal danger? How many arbitrations have been reversed, overturned, or evaded in court proceedings in recent past? If you are forced to accept the Nicolau list, how much money have you personally lost? How much time paid time off will you never recover? What a shame.

 

[3dtv]

You had better go back and read what the ninth said.

Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA's
seniority proposal


The airline responded.
The parties completed negotiations.
The membership ratified the CBA. LCC, AMR, APP and the UCC have all said it is a contract. At POR there will be nothing contingent. Done deal.

Nowhere does it say we have to wait for ANOTHER SLI.

Using usapa's own arguments the MOU is seniority neutral. Neutral is usapa proposal. Replacing a final and binding arbitration with nothing is harm.

At POR this case is unquestionably ripe and usapa has no argument against it. My bet is judge Silver waits for the POR to rule. That way she removes any question of ripeness. The same ripeness that she disagrees with the ninth circuit.

The west has 8 years of proof of harm.

Amazing how you go 80 % then stop. There is NO HARM to claim as there is no final seniority proposal. It has to be done IAW the MOU, negotiated, available to implement, to prove that working for the largest airline with a big raise and job security harmed you rather than a NIC that would never be voted in.

 

[cactusboy53]

Why don't you stop with your child remarks... The whole cupcake ..... Soon thing, really grow up

I'm sorry if you think my poking at the animals is childish, but tough nuts. We tire of this entire circus, frankly. The judicial / managerial end to this nonsense is near, and we (AWA pilots couldn't be happier).

Here's what we tire of:

• A larger group failing to abide by an agreement.
• The same group voting out an actual "union" (albeit weak) for the purpose of attempting to evade the final product of the agreement.
• The new CBA collecting dues from us vs. being fired for non-payment, thus making us pay for your attacks on us.
• Suing 24+ for a TWICE FAILED RICO lawsuit.
• Attempting to fire 3 pilots for false ID theft.
• There's more, but you folks just don't think you've done anything wrong (a complete lack of moral fiber).

Soon flyer, very soon.

 

[Claxon]

You had better go back and read what the ninth said.

Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA's
seniority proposal


The airline responded.
The parties completed negotiations.
The membership ratified the CBA. LCC, AMR, APP and the UCC have all said it is a contract. At POR there will be nothing contingent. Done deal.

Nowhere does it say we have to wait for ANOTHER SLI.

Using usapa's own arguments the MOU is seniority neutral. Neutral is usapa proposal. Replacing a final and binding arbitration with nothing is harm.

At POR this case is unquestionably ripe and usapa has no argument against it. My bet is judge Silver waits for the POR to rule. That way she removes any question of ripeness. The same ripeness that she disagrees with the ninth circuit.

The west has 8 years of proof of harm.

The airline president responded to you when you lectured him within a question. Tried to lecture him that the MOU was a JCBA. "NO"

 

[Claxon]

I'm sorry if you think my poking at the animals is childish, but tough nuts. We tire of this entire circus, frankly. The judicial / managerial end to this nonsense is near, and we (AWA pilots couldn't be happier).

Here's what we tire of:

• A larger group failing to abide by an agreement.
• The same group voting out an actual "union" (albeit weak) for the purpose of attempting to evade the final product of the agreement.
• The new CBA collecting dues from us vs. being fired for non-payment, thus making us pay for your attacks on us.
• Suing 24+ for a TWICE FAILED RICO lawsuit.
• Attempting to fire 3 pilots for false ID theft.
• There's more, but you folks just don't think you've done anything wrong (a complete lack of moral fiber).

Soon flyer, very soon.

Everyone in your company says fall in line and merge like everyone else. Stop cutting in line.
"NO"

 

[cactusboy53]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Claxon (just another psycho voice in the wilderness). View it anyway?

Ah, SWEET!