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August 2013 Pilot Discussion

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Well look who has crawled out of the wood work. FYI, just because APA may be the pilot representative next year, USAPA is still THE legal entity that represents the US Airways pilots regarding the SLI. I'm not sure of you're point here Chip other than to stir up ####.
Once the APA becomes the legal bargaining agent usapa ends. They will represent NO ONE. Does not matter what point we are at during the SLI. usapa goes away having NO legal authority.
 
I really wish some smart airline-savvy statistician would examine the FAA records on pilots, the level of their licensing, the number of "new starts," the number of ATP written exams completed, the number of ATPs reaching age 65 in the next decade, the number of new ATP pilots each year for the past decade, etc. as well as projected passenger demand, current aircraft orders, etc. and number of US military pilots trained each year and their retention levels....and then that statistician might come up with a projection that (I feel in my gut) simply demolishes any pie-in-the-sky idea that DA, UA and AA will be able to sustain any kind of significant regional presence. Simply put, who exactly is going to staff these RJs, and who exactly is going to endure slave-wages as the mainline opportunities explode in number?

Getting qualified to be an airline pilot has always been an expensive proposition when done privately, and getting a military pilot training slot is now akin to winning the PowerBall (and the military now pays enough to retain their pilots.) And each passing day, both of these propositions get even more difficult and/or expensive. And now it is near impossible for even the relatively well-financed "Joe" to get the minimum hours to even fly co-pilot on an EMB 145. And the impending rest rules will further tighten the demand for raw numbers of ATPs.

I see an implosion on the horizon. Am I missing something? If pilots would actually get their act together and act like real union workers (i.e. the blue collar workers they truly are), they would find themselves with incredible leverage over the next decade.

Now, where is that smart statistician with the graphs and pie charts?

(Please don't start posting links to sites that really don't deal with the entire picture. There are a lot of "pieces of the puzzle" out there for anyone to see. But no one has solved the jigsaw yet, except maybe the airlines themselves who are desperate to keep the reality under wraps.)
You hit the nail,on the head. Unionism, and it's corresponding term unity, is ONLY as good as their UNIformity. Disparity in groups and between groups, can and MEAN only one thing....divided and conquered.

All I can tell you is you better do your job because for every one of us here, there are twenty out there that WILL do your job...for less. Remember, ALPA, APA and FAA says so....every person is a CAPTAIN.
 
You hit the nail,on the head. Unionism, and it's corresponding term unity, is ONLY as good as their UNIformity. Disparity in groups and between groups, can and MEAN only one thing....divided and conquered.

All I can tell you is you better do your job because for every one of us here, there are twenty out there that WILL do your job...for less. Remember, ALPA, APA and FAA says so....every person is a CAPTAIN.

I was a little disapointed to see that the Alaska contract that just passed had a smaller than hoped pay raise and very little scope protection. One reason is that i have friends that fly there, the other reason is that we have an unlimited flying agreement with them. Initially they will make more, but in just a couple years we easily surpase them in pay and benefits. I don't like the idea of a large portion of our west coast flying being flown by another carrier with 737s. What's even worse is that Skywest is getting more and more of Horizon's and Alaska's flying. Well, rant over.

Bean
 


Discussion: I wonder how some of the East pilots feel about USAPA selecting Bob Mann as their Merger Advisor who was the America West Merger Committee’s consultant and according to former AWA MEC Chairman CJ Szmal is “A strong advocate and endorser of the Nicolau Award construction.” I’m curious to hear from forum members their view of this appointment?

USA320Pilot


As, usual, if you'd taken the time to educate yourself you might have a point to make.

Dan Katz is representing the Continental pilots. They are advocating longevity has no relevance nor do financials, aircraft orders, premium widebody positions, attrition - nothing but seniority list A vs B.

Oh yea, and we want access to your piece of the right now.

Everybody's your best bud as long as the checks cash.
 
I was a little disapointed to see that the Alaska contract that just passed had a smaller than hoped pay raise and very little scope protection. One reason is that i have friends that fly there, the other reason is that we have an unlimited flying agreement with them. Initially they will make more, but in just a couple years we easily surpase them in pay and benefits. I don't like the idea of a large portion of our west coast flying being flown by another carrier with 737s. What's even worse is that Skywest is getting more and more of Horizon's and Alaska's flying. Well, rant over.

Bean
It was that way for Southwest before 9/11 as well. Two US Airways BK contracts, along with AWA pay being already below southwest put them at the top of the industry. Don't worry, Southwest is going to get theirs soon enough.

Good for Skywest. They deserve better than that scum Alaska and Horizons CAPTAINS taking all the entitlement gravy.
 
All I can tell you is you better do your job because for every one of us here, there are twenty out there that WILL do your job...for less.

I disagree with your conjecture about the numbers, and that was my point. Just where are those twenty new hires ready to jump in and take my job, and those of my fellow-retirees? Are they flying for American Eagle, and PSA, and ....

Okay, and where are the 1500 hour ATPs who are standing by to fill those now-empty RJ and Turboprop cockpits?

If the pilots of a major carrier called a general strike, where are the vast numbers of 1500 hour ATPs to break that strike?

Twenty years ago, your contention would have been spot on. I don't think it is valid today. I just doubt that there is a vast pool of under-65 year-old, over 1500-hour ATPs out there looking for better right now. And after "right now," the number will just continue to decrease through attrition.

(But, I am not telling anyone not to do their job.)
 
Our DOH will come into play and place each pilot where they should be......none of this BS NIC of jumping ahead 17 years. You're right on one count about 4 arbitrations....that was Traitor, sorry.

No problem, we understand you often get confused about who and what you're talking about.

You should prepare yourself for the fact that DOH is not going to happen.
 
I disagree with your conjecture about the numbers, and that was my point. Just where are those twenty new hires ready to jump in and take my job, and those of my fellow-retirees? Are they flying for American Eagle, and PSA, and ....

Okay, and where are the 1500 hour ATPs who are standing by to fill those now-empty RJ and Turboprop cockpits?

If the pilots of a major carrier called a general strike, where are the vast numbers of 1500 hour ATPs to break that strike?

Twenty years ago, your contention would have been spot on. I don't think it is valid today. I just doubt that there is a vast pool of under-65 year-old, over 1500-hour ATPs out there looking for better right now. And after "right now," the number will just continue to decrease through attrition.

(But, I am not telling anyone not to do their job.)
Read my post again. I didn't say anything about new hires. I said pilots, many of which work here. I won't honor a strike because they won't honor longevity. The West pilots along with the new hires I have already flown with consider themselves third listers and they therefore think they have no dog in the fight. Ask them. They don't care. They need a job and they won't walk. Money walks and bull#### talks.
 
No problem, we understand you often get confused about who and what you're talking about.

You should prepare yourself for the fact that DOH is not going to happen.

"You can judge a mans success in life by the means he had to obtain it."
Author?

Daddy paid for your college, daddy got you the job with US Airways. Lets just put it this way, Hemingway would not enjoy sharing a beverage with you.
 
Read my post again. I didn't say anything about new hires. I said pilots, many of which work here. I won't honor a strike because they won't honor longevity. The West pilots along with the new hires I have already flown with consider themselves third listers and they therefore think they have no dog in the fight. Ask them. They don't care. They need a job and they won't walk. Money walks and bull#### talks.

Ok. My point was not to engage the seniority fight at US Airways. In the grand scheme of things (i.e. the entire airline industry and its staffing needs), our Nic vs. DOH battle is not all that significant. To us, maybe, it's the end of civilization as we know it. But that was NOT the point I was trying to make.
 
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