August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

"You can judge a mans success in life by the means he had to obtain it."

Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one. ~ Chinese Proverb

 

[nycbusdriver]

Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one. ~ Chinese Proverb

Finally! You get it!

The entire basis for the east rejection of the Nicolau abomination. "Final and binding" (laws) vs. "Fairness" (right conduct.)

Nice that you finally came around.

 

[cleardirect]

Finally! You get it!

The entire basis for the east rejection of the Nicolau abomination. "Final and binding" (laws) vs. "Fairness" (right conduct.)

Nice that you finally came around.

Your entire problem is that you or the majority don't get to decide what "fair" is. That is not what final and binding arbitration is about. Unless you are willing to allow the APA and the majority of american pilots to decide what is fair in the next integration.

Your opinion of "fair" has no meaning. So the entire basis for the east rejection of final and binding is false.

 

[mrbreeze]

No problem, we understand you often get confused about who and what you're talking about.

You should prepare yourself for the fact that DOH is not going to happen.

Me confused???? LOL! I am not the guy carrying the football toward the wrong goal line, while ignoring all of your team mates who are telling you that you are screwing up!

 

[snapthis]

Me confused???? LOL! I am not the guy carrying the football toward the wrong goal line, while ignoring all of your team mates who are telling you that you are screwing up!

I think you got it all wrong. USAPA thinks they have the ball and headed for the end zone. Too bad they missed the yellow flag thrown at the 50 yard line. It's our ball now. We are in the final seconds in the game and all USAPA can hope for is a turnover and DOH Hail Mary.

Good luck!

 

[mrbreeze]

I think you got it all wrong. USAPA thinks they have the ball and headed for the end zone. Too bad they missed the yellow flag thrown at the 50 yard line. It's our ball now. We are in the final seconds in the game and all USAPA can hope for is a turnover and DOH Hail Mary.

Good luck!

Well, the refs are looking at the instant replay concerning the flag....it was a close call. Our team, though, is still trying to get this one very confused player to clear his head. At least for now, he is sitting on the bench.

 

[snapthis]

Well, the refs are looking at the instant replay concerning the flag....it was a close call. Our team, though, is still trying to get this one dumbazz player to clear his head. At least for now, he is sitting on the bench.

Considering the way the game is being played, I'd say he's a bit woozy and needs to clear his head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWAQ8rTBLUk

 

[cynic]

I think you got it all wrong. USAPA thinks they have the ball and headed for the end zone.

Unfortunately, they're in the parking lot at a baseball game

 

[snapthis]

Unfortunately, they're in the parking lot at a baseball game

They need to pick up the beer cans because the tailgate party is over. Their team has been sold and is moving to Dallas. New owners, the APA.

 

[Freighterguynow]

More like Tailhook when APA makes the America West pilot group their bitches.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I see you still don't understand the difference between an agreement between parties and federal law. Do you actually think a contract trumps the NMB?

You seem to think a Judge in AZ does.

 

[Real tired]

I really wish some smart airline-savvy statistician would examine the FAA records on pilots, the level of their licensing, the number of "new starts," the number of ATP written exams completed, the number of ATPs reaching age 65 in the next decade, the number of new ATP pilots each year for the past decade, etc. as well as projected passenger demand, current aircraft orders, etc. and number of US military pilots trained each year and their retention levels....and then that statistician might come up with a projection that (I feel in my gut) simply demolishes any pie-in-the-sky idea that DA, UA and AA will be able to sustain any kind of significant regional presence. Simply put, who exactly is going to staff these RJs, and who exactly is going to endure slave-wages as the mainline opportunities explode in number?

Getting qualified to be an airline pilot has always been an expensive proposition when done privately, and getting a military pilot training slot is now akin to winning the PowerBall (and the military now pays enough to retain their pilots.) And each passing day, both of these propositions get even more difficult and/or expensive. And now it is near impossible for even the relatively well-financed "Joe" to get the minimum hours to even fly co-pilot on an EMB 145. And the impending rest rules will further tighten the demand for raw numbers of ATPs.

I see an implosion on the horizon. Am I missing something? If pilots would actually get their act together and act like real union workers (i.e. the blue collar workers they truly are), they would find themselves with incredible leverage over the next decade.

Now, where is that smart statistician with the graphs and pie charts?

(Please don't start posting links to sites that really don't deal with the entire picture. There are a lot of "pieces of the puzzle" out there for anyone to see. But no one has solved the jigsaw yet, except maybe the airlines themselves who are desperate to keep the reality under wraps.)

A great thought provoking post. It should have been a thread all it's own. Thanks !

All you would have to do is substitute the word "Mechanic" for "Pilot" in your post, and you'd have the state of our profession also. A shortage is in the future.

Just after completing a two year stint at PIA, and being in hock for around 10 grand for it, three of my classmate friends and I decided to rent a 182 and fly to Florida to enroll at Embry-Riddle for the princely sum of $25,000, plus room and board. We decided to go down there to check out our new digs and the whole Daytona area.

The passage of time has made me forget their names, all I remember is be-bopping down to Florida in an old 182, from airport bar to airport bar, and back. And after we got back we all did some talking and soul searching because one of our Mechanic contacts on the inside at Allegheny had told us we could make way more as a Mechanic with overtime, than a F/E on the 727-100, or a F/O on the 9, or the one-eleven, which is most likely where we would have begun our careers at Allegheny.

None of us went to Embry-Riddle to pursue a career in flight. We couldn't afford the 25 grand for four years. As I remember, one went to Braniff. One went to Northwest. And I went to the new USAir. All as Mechanics.

Over the years here, I've often thought about my old Mechanic contact. He started with Mohawk in Utica. A good union man who had been through the fight of his life, protecting what he had, and building a future of something better to give to me, the next generation.

And I wondered what would have happened to me if I would have gone on to Embry-Riddle. Would I be a C/O on an international 777? Or would I have been stuck as a "Lawn Dart" pilot for Trans States like my next door neighbor who was 12 years my junior?

And over the years I've made friends with a Pilot or two. One of which, some time back, I ran into, flying his broom in the light bulb aisle, working at Home Depot. He too was from that last generation of good union men who fought and died for what I could give up.

I can't remember if he was old Allegheny, Lake Central, or Mohawk. But the subject turned to work and what was going on. And through the course of our conversation, I happened to refer to him and his group as "old timers". I could see that didn't set too well with him, and I went into my damage control mode. I remember telling him, "You may be retired, and I might still be there, but you earned everything for us to give away". I thanked him for that, and told him he's in a "better place" and he wouldn't like it back here. I never saw him again.

The moral of my little tale:
1) Unionism is lost with the "me" generation. Our fore fathers are rolling in their graves. It seems so easy to give up everything they earned for us, just to give it away, just to be "lucky to have a job."
2) Unionism has become a dues business and has lost sight of their core business, me the dues payer.
3) Stay away for a career in Aviation Maintenance. There's no future except down. You're better off at BMW or Audi or Lexus.
4) Buzzed flying over the Blue Ridge in a 182... It's a blast.

 

[snapthis]

More like Tailhook when APA makes the America West pilot group their bitches.

When does USAPA hand over the KY and Viagra to the APA? Maybe they have the smarts not to use either on an America West pilots seeing how a certain union got spayed.

 

[EastUS1]

Maybe they have the smarts not to use either on an America West pilots seeing how a certain union got spayed.

No worries. It's a given that the APA wouldn't even dare mess with the likes of "youse" guys. They're painfully aware of the possible consequences. They know they might well be subjected to years of infantile videos, as well as unbalanced individuals exclaiming how much they "hate all of youse!". According to my friends at American...well...they admit to living in fearful awe of you "spartans", and have already set aside several acres for an impressive monument to both your 2003-new-hire/self-styled "supreme commander" and of course; St. Nic himself! 🙂 There's even talk of allowing all of "youse" to subsume 17 or even more years-worked of their seniority! 😉

Thanks again for the dependable laughs. 🙂

 

[cleardirect]

You seem to think a Judge in AZ does.

Issuing an injunction against a rogue union that violated the DFR is well within a federal judges authority.