August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

Hey, haven't you move on, already?

 

[snapthis]

Oh I see! USAPA only wanted LOS "RECOGNIZED." Got it. And here I thought all along that the east wanted the "gold standard" of DOH. My mistake.

So you would be OK with a small percentage of weighting for your LOS to be "recognized" while status and category is weighted twice as much? Oh and you would agree to having your furloughed pilots go back out first in any future downsizing? I must have missed that update since I haven't been around these parts too much lately.

Just want to be clear. A simple yes or no answer would suffice, Clax.

Each case turns on it's own facts. The only way United and US Airways was similar was the U.

The fact is the East negotiators would not come off DOH. They had a their chance.

"Regrettably but inevitably, there will be perceived disparities and mismatches by individuals on both sides under the merged list. George Nicolau's four basic verities of ISL arbitration are as apt and vital today as they were nearly a quarter of a century ago: each case turns on its own facts; the objective is to make the integration air and equitable; the proposals advanced by those in contest rarely meet that standard; and the end result, no matter how crafted, never commands universal acceptance. See
Federal Express and Flying Tiger Pilots, (1990, at pp. 27-28.)."

 

[cactusboy53]

Phoenix posted: [background=rgb(242, 242, 242)]cactusboy53, on 02 September 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:[/background]


This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by ReedRichards. View it anyway?

I don't even know what this means. Did I win something? RR

Here's what it means: I have not placed you in my personal "cornfield" at this time. It does mean that Scooter (Phoenix) is so bored that he's making up lies to get a rise.

 

[cactusboy53]

" The evolution of ALPA Merger Policy
including, most importantly, the modifications following George Nicolau’s Award in the
America West-US Airway case, is central to the resolution of this case."

The merger policy changed because the US Airways East pilots said no more and kicked alpa's ever loving living ass off the property. All you UAL pilots were treated fairly due to the East's pilots work.

Note: only replying because I saw some of Claxon's posts in recent replies...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rAlTOfl9F2w

 

[Metroyet]

And DOH it will always be it with me and a few thousand of my flying comrades. There is no need to quibble on that. It is a much redder line than currently drawn by Obama. In fact it is black, solid, and unwavering. Longevity has a nice ring to it, but it still is not DOH. As far as we have come, with so much lost in the process, I only feel stronger about a union principle that has stood for decades. Not some wishy washy compromise or settlement. I have 8 years to go, and my single vote on whatever referendum will always be that "seniority matters." RR

BS. Your side will vote in the Nic for a 10% raise. USTUPID knows it. That's why you'll never have an improved contract until the fake union dies. Frankly, I enjoy seeing the massive volumes of misery you've caused YOURSELVES.

 

[Metroyet]

The results of the United seniority arbitration is obviously due to the US Airways East pilots influence.

The is devastating to the west case and I believe the final nail in the nic coffin.

You believe that because you're equal measure lunatic and moron.

 

[Pi brat]

In 2005 when Barbell Aquisition merged with America West Holding Corp. Who in turn acquired US in a reverse acquisition forming LCC.

That was not a liquidation.

 

[Pi brat]

Your question makes no sense. Either that or you're being obtuse. No merger, no US(liquidate).

Bean

It makes perfect sense. If I have cancer and it looks like I will die, but receive treatment and go into remission, do I die? No.

The merger changed everything and Parker didnt do it out of charity. It was best for AWA. From that day forward everything changed.

Why do think a windfall is deserved for you? You didn't have anything to do with it. As a matter of fact, I'd bet 99% of you didn't support it.

 

[flyer63]

Oh I see! USAPA only wanted LOS "RECOGNIZED." Got it. And here I thought all along that the east wanted the "gold standard" of DOH. My mistake.

So you would be OK with a small percentage of weighting for your LOS to be "recognized" while status and category is weighted twice as much? Oh and you would agree to having your furloughed pilots go back out first in any future downsizing? I must have missed that update since I haven't been around these parts too much lately.

Just want to be clear. A simple yes or no answer would suffice, Clax.

Jets you are a hypocrite. You like how your merger turned out. UAL furloughed pilots were not stapled. great I agree. But in the same breath you, NiC and the rest of the gang say, oh no that's different for the AWA, US merger. For you guys its ok for NIC to staple. HyPocrite

 

[Beancounter]

It makes perfect sense. If I have cancer and it looks like I will die, but receive treatment and go into remission, do I die? No.

The merger changed everything and Parker didnt do it out of charity. It was best for AWA. From that day forward everything changed.

Why do think a windfall is deserved for you? You didn't have anything to do with it. As a matter of fact, I'd bet 99% of you didn't support it.

Do you die, no. Does that change the fact that you would have died without the treatment? No, which is exactly my point. That's great that now you are cured, but you can't change the fact that you had the cancer and were, "knock, knock, knocking, on Heaven's door." Should I gain from you're misfortune? No, of course I shouldn't, but at the same time you shouldn't be getting a windfall either, it's not my fault you got sick.

Well, I do agree with one thing you posted, the merger helped both airlines.

Why would career expectations deal with the combined airline after the merger? It has to do with both carriers PRIOR to the merger. Like I said, you're not making any sense. You're right, everything changed. You can't take a snapshot now, because the companies that we both came from no longer exist as separate entities.

For the record, I wasn't against the merger.

Bean

 

[767jetz]

Jets you are a hypocrite. You like how your merger turned out. UAL furloughed pilots were not stapled. great I agree. But in the same breath you, NiC and the rest of the gang say, oh no that's different for the AWA, US merger. For you guys its ok for NIC to staple. HyPocrite

Actually you are wrong. SOME of our furloughs got SOME credit for LOS. They did not get DOH, nor did they leapfrog in front of CAL captains. I think you should have gotten some credit for LOS. You should have asked for it. Maybe you would have gotten what our bottom guys got. They will be junior NB f/o's. I don't think you were entitled to what you were asking... straight DOH. I didn't think you were entitled to it when you wanted the same thing from UAL in 2000. You should have tried a different approach. You screwed yourselves and I have no sympathy for that.

I also said that binding is binding. And so it will be at UAL. I also said that I expect to be pretty much where I was before the merger, which I am. Just as your guys should have been. Bottom guys at the bottom. Top guys at the top. I also said I did not nor would not support screwing the CAL pilots and suddenly leapfrog from Medium Gauge f/o to captain overnight. But you wanted to jump from junior reserve NB f/o to 320 captain at the expense of others based solely on your DOH. Show me where the UA proposal was anything close to that. If you are going to call me a hypocrite, prove your work.

No hypocrisy whatsoever. The UA outcome came out NOTHING like you were asking for in your arbitration. Regardless of LOS or merger policy. It very closely resembles a relative seniority solution.

Hope you enjoy sleeping in the bed you made for the rest of your career. You were over-reaching pinheads in 2000, and still are to this day.

 

[Phoenix]

Here's what it means: I have not placed you in my personal "cornfield" at this time. It does mean that Scooter (Phoenix) is so bored that he's making up lies to get a rise.

Yes it was a joke. 🙂 Instead of going nuclear with the standard angle of "integrity and lies" (really? Lies?)...

Instead of performing an encore, you could have just laughed along with us. 😀

 

[Phoenix]

Actually you are wrong. SOME of our furloughs got SOME credit for LOS. They did not get DOH, nor did they leapfrog in front of CAL captains. I think you should have gotten some credit for LOS. You should have asked for it. Maybe you would have gotten what our bottom guys got. They will be junior NB f/o's. I don't think you were entitled to what you were asking... straight DOH. I didn't think you were entitled to it when you wanted the same thing from UAL in 2000. You should have tried a different approach. You screwed yourselves and I have no sympathy for that.

I also said that binding is binding. And so it will be at UAL. I also said that I expect to be pretty much where I was before the merger, which I am. Just as your guys should have been. Bottom guys at the bottom. Top guys at the top. I also said I did not nor would not support screwing the CAL pilots and suddenly leapfrog from Medium Gauge f/o to captain overnight. But you wanted to jump from junior reserve NB f/o to 320 captain at the expense of others based solely on your DOH. Show me where the UA proposal was anything close to that. If you are going to call me a hypocrite, prove your work.

No hypocrisy whatsoever. The UA outcome came out NOTHING like you were asking for in your arbitration. Regardless of LOS or merger policy. It very closely resembles a relative seniority solution.

Hope you enjoy sleeping in the bed you made for the rest of your career. You were over-reaching pinheads in 2000, and still are to this day.

When I tell everyone I have moved on I hope at least twice as many believe me. 🙂

 

[traderjake]

When I tell everyone I have moved on I hope at least twice as many believe me. 🙂

 

[Phoenix]

Is this what courtship looks like?