August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[nic4us]

You are wrong. Like I told Bean, we just don't want to be penalized for something that did not happen-Chp7.

Your entire argument is based soley on misinformation and your hypocritical opinion that "it just ain't fair....whaaaaaaa"!

You were not punished for something that did not happen, you were rewarded, and beyond what you should ahave had, for the positions you brought to the merger.

Also, your chapter 11 BS is way off base. How exactly did Parker use chapter 11, something LCC has never been in, to remove hulls from your side, when he had no control over your side til post merger?

Also, Parker was pretty smart keeping you on LOA93 for the two years before the Nic. Seems it has saved the company well over a BILLION dollars. You could have had parity when the TA was negotiated, but the east NC dropped the ball once again overplaying their hand.

 

[snapthis]

Well there are lots of "to the victor goes the spoils" examples in the Bible. Did you take note of how much wealth the Israelites gathered from Eqypt as they departed for the land of Canaan? All that gold, silver and bronze used to make the tabernacle came from somewhere. Of course after hundreds of years of being slaves they were certainly owed something. Joshua, David, Solomon and many others prospered with victories over their enemies also or the tribute that was owed to them just for being able to conquer an enemy.

East pilots were not penalized by the NIC. Everyone who had a left seat status at the time of the merger could keep it with the NIC. Everyone who held a right seat status at the time of the merger could retain that status after the NIC too. And everyone who had no seat to hold at the time of the merger could wait for one to open up just as they could if no merger had occurred.

The NIC retained positions people had which seems exceedingly fair in comparison to any proposed DOH system where east pilots instantly gain status at the immediate and harmful expense of the west pilots. Given the power and responsibility to decide how to accomplish an SLI, Nicolau crafted a fair ratio/slotted system to met all of the TA policy criteria. After that came out and the east pilots were no longer facing liquidation of their company as the only other alternative to a merger, they then effectively said we want to take more benefits than the NIC provided even though we gave him the unfettered responsibility to decide the SLI for us. Sounds to me like a desire to gain from the merger without a willingness bare the costs that came with it (TA, binding arbitration, NIC).

They drew a red line with DOH, much like Obama did with Syria. The results of the the arbitration did not go the way they wanted, DOH. Much like Obama, Usapians find themselves scrambling for support. I don't see much support from the United and Delta pilots for their cause.

It appears that red line is more of a box of their own creation due to miscalculations.

 

[luvthe9]

It appears that red line is more of a box of their own creation due to miscalculations.

More like a circle around PHX, a big stagnant circle that you kids imposed on yourself, oh well enjoy and remember this merge might not happen ( personally I could care less it it goes or not).

 

[Pi brat]

The NIC retained positions people had which seems exceedingly fair in comparison to any proposed DOH system where east pilots instantly gain status at the immediate and harmful expense of the west pilots. Given the power and responsibility to decide how to accomplish an SLI, Nicolau crafted a fair ratio/slotted system that met all of the TA policy criteria. After that came out and the east pilots were no longer facing liquidation of their company as the only other alternative to a merger, they then effectively said we want to take more benefits than the NIC provided even though we gave him the unfettered responsibility to decide the SLI for us. Sounds to me like a desire to gain from the merger without a willingness bare the costs that came with it (TA, binding arbitration, NIC).

Use the Old Testament when it suits you. Like so many "Christians" I know.

I didn't compare the Nic to DOH.

How is a west guy getting a 6 year bump in moving to the left seat while the east guy takes a 2 year delay meeting the goals of the ALPA merger policy. Specifically, no windfall at the expense of another.

 

[Pi brat]

Your entire argument is based soley on misinformation and your hypocritical opinion that "it just ain't fair....whaaaaaaa"!

You were not punished for something that did not happen, you were rewarded, and beyond what you should ahave had, for the positions you brought to the merger.

Also, your chapter 11 BS is way off base. How exactly did Parker use chapter 11, something LCC has never been in, to remove hulls from your side, when he had no control over your side til post merger?

Also, Parker was pretty smart keeping you on LOA93 for the two years before the Nic. Seems it has saved the company well over a BILLION dollars. You could have had parity when the TA was negotiated, but the east NC dropped the ball once again overplaying their hand.

No. it's based on logic and fact.

How has Parker changed things and planning at the new American? How did UA change things at US in 2000. It happens, and it happened here. I have personal ties to ones that know.

Nicolau tried to award the junior west with what we brought to the merger.

Now, when was that Chp 7 filing for US and when did it shut down operations?

And prove we could have had parity at the merger date. There is no way that would have happen because Parker wanted our subsidy. You are full of ####, scab.

 

[Pi brat]

They drew a red line with DOH, much like Obama did with Syria. The results of the the arbitration did not go the way they wanted, DOH. Much like Obama, Usapians find themselves scrambling for support. I don't see much support from the United and Delta pilots for their cause.

It appears that red line is more of a box of their own creation due to miscalculations.

Look in the mirror Snappy. You guys pushed for 100% when circumstances wouldn't allow it. It has cost your junior guys a lot. Of course the Nic is such a windfall, it may pay off in the end.

 

[luvthe9]

Look in the mirror Snappy. it has cost your junior guys a lot.

It has cost their whole airline, junior and senior but it's what they wanted.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Use the Old Testament when it suits you. Like so many "Christians" I know.

I didn't compare the Nic to DOH.

How is a west guy getting a 6 year bump in moving to the left seat while the east guy takes a 2 year delay meeting the goals of the ALPA merger policy. Specifically, no windfall at the expense of another.

There are more than 260 direct quotations of the Old Testament in the 27 books of the New testament meaning the average Gospel or Epistle (Revelation included) cites the OT more than nine times each. Since some books are really short, the average is actually quite a bit higher. Jesus cites the OT as the ultimate authority even saying that not even the smallest little mark made in the OT would cease until heaven and earth pass away. So, I'm not sure why quoting the OT is out of bounds for a Christian. I am staring to think you might be confused by what it means to be a Christian however. Paul definitively states that there is not one righteous person - not even one and all fall short of God's perfect expectations. A Christian is one who abandons any sense or hope that he can attain to the righteousness of God of his own doing but instead accepts that 100% of the righteousness needed to be accepted by God will come from what Christ did on the cross. Not 50%/50%, not 1%/99%, not .000000001%/99.99999999%, but 0.00%/100% of His righteousness and not mine. That's what it means to be a "Christian".

Now a windfall is defined a sudden and unexpected gain without merit. There is no west pilot who suddenly and unexpectedly gained as a result of the SLI produced by the NIC. If it had been adopted in 2007 when it was released there would have been little to no movement at all. The east, and you in particular, want to look at 6 or more years of delay and say this if the NIC took effect now that there would be more movement than there would have been six years ago. That may well be true, but it would not be sudden (award issued in 2007) or unexpected (west pilots just like east pilots had an expectation to be able to move to the left seat when their relative position on the seniority list allowed for it). So there is no windfall. The both pilot groups were slotted in to a larger, integrated list and that was a direct result, good or bad, of the merger that was initiated on 9/27/2005; an event that created benefits and costs to both east and west pilots. Now which group is unwilling to accept the costs that come with the merger?

 

[luvthe9]

There is no west pilot who suddenly and unexpectedly gained as a result of the SLI produced by the NIC.

This is a joke I hope or have you started happy hour early, hit in the head with a golf ball maybe? has to be a joke, where have you been the last 6 years?

 

[Metroyet]

No. it's based on logic and fact.

How has Parker changed things and planning at the new American? How did UA change things at US in 2000. It happens, and it happened here. I have personal ties to ones that know.

Nicolau tried to award the junior west with what we brought to the merger.

Now, when was that Chp 7 filing for US and when did it shut down operations?

And prove we could have had parity at the merger date. There is no way that would have happen because Parker wanted our subsidy. You are full of ####, scab.

You brought 1,879 furloughees. Don't forget it.

 

[Keroseneuser]

You brought 1,879 furloughees. Don't forget it.

Incorrect. Only about 550 came back. At least use correct numbers to bolster your argument.

 

[luvthe9]

RAISES FOR ALL.... I'm sure Delta employees are happy they told Parker to pound sand. Ashame Dougie does not know how to run an airline and treat employees. http://skift.com/201....000-workers/

 

[CallawayGolf]

This is a joke I hope or have you started happy hour early, hit in the head with a golf ball maybe? has to be a joke, where have you been the last 6 years?

Are you suggesting that a single west FO would have displaced an active east CO as a direct result of the NIC? Are you stating that if the NIC went into effect on 6/1/2007 that a west pilot would have been able to hold a WB position that same month? The NIC protected 517 WB positions and also pushed every west pilot down in relative seniority compared to where they were on their AWA stand-alone list.

 

[Phoenix]

There are more than 260 direct quotations of the Old Testament in the 27 books of the New testament meaning the average Gospel or Epistle (Revelation included) cites the OT more than nine times each. Since some books are really short, the average is actually quite a bit higher. Jesus cites the OT as the ultimate authority even saying that not even the smallest little mark made in the OT would cease until heaven and earth pass away. So, I'm not sure why quoting the OT is out of bounds for a Christian. I am staring to think you might be confused by what it means to be a Christian however. Paul definitively states that there is not one righteous person - not even one and all fall short of God's perfect expectations. A Christian is one who abandons any sense or hope that he can attain to the righteousness of God of his own doing but instead accepts that 100% of the righteousness needed to be accepted by God will come from what Christ did on the cross. Not 50%/50%, not 1%/99%, not .000000001%/99.99999999%, but 0.00%/100% of His righteousness and not mine. That's what it means to be a "Christian".

Now a windfall is defined a sudden and unexpected gain without merit. There is no west pilot who suddenly and unexpectedly gained as a result of the SLI produced by the NIC. If it had been adopted in 2007 when it was released there would have been little to no movement at all. The east, and you in particular, want to look at 6 or more years of delay and say this if the NIC took effect now that there would be more movement than there would have been six years ago. That may well be true, but it would not be sudden (award issued in 2007) or unexpected (west pilots just like east pilots had an expectation to be able to move to the left seat when their relative position on the seniority list allowed for it). So there is no windfall. The both pilot groups were slotted in to a larger, integrated list and that was a direct result, good or bad, of the merger that was initiated on 9/27/2005; an event that created benefits and costs to both east and west pilots. Now which group is unwilling to accept the costs that come with the merger?

Nic is it. Hezekiah 2:29. It's over.

 

[Metroyet]

RAISES FOR ALL.... I'm sure Delta employees are happy they told Parker to pound sand. Ashame Dougie does not know how to run an airline and treat employees. http://skift.com/201....000-workers/

You're treated poorly, on LOA93 because you're demanding it. You're getting what you asked for...in spades.