August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

Hey Claxon, are you able to delete your quote of my post? Stupid of me to post sensitive info. Thanks.

Consider it done

 

[Piedmont1984]

Did I mention for the 100th time that the union should have had a pilot only forum?

 

[Claxon]

Deleted

Nice job SnapMove. I bet you are one of those people who answer their home phones between 5 and 7 on a week night.

 

[Reed Richards]

Did I mention for the 100th time that the union should have had a pilot only forum?

Only 38% of the CLT pilots even bother to vote. Why give then any more reading? Good Gawd, its 2013. For a pittance you can start you own web board, moderate and control entry, and generally do the same thing any union board could do. RR

 

[Claxon]

Snap move, were you involved?

More Spartan Third Reich obsession

 

[Claxon]

america west pilot video titled donate to army of leonidas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxUiZBfDxug

 

[Phoenix]

First, you and PHX need to realize that the premise of no Article III jurisdiction is full of BS.

All plaintiff has to do is establish injury in fact and there is jurisdiction.

Both the 9th and Silver have commented on the harm uscaba has inflicted on the West. Wake and Bybee saw ripeness due to the harm. The knife has already been thrust, the harm is real. The 9th set a bar in this case of a ratified agreement,,,,,,,an agreement has been reached, and uscaba failed their DFR.

Outside the "wide range of reasonableness", uscaba's actions are wholly arbitrary, discriminatory and in bad faith. Not just one, but all three of the criteria are met.

Game on.

A judge must reasonably find that a plaintiff's claim plausibly asserts an immediate and direct harm caused by the defendant in order to have jurisdiction by authority of the United States Constitution, which Judge Silver swore an oath to uphold. Judge Silver must ensure the plaintiff explicitly alleges that harm and she must adjudge (not implicitly assume) it to be reasonably plausible BEFORE a trial. Explicit, specific, immediate, and direct harm is a prerequisite of jurisdiction.

At least Wake and Bybee were smart enough to include harm in their analysis, though they made the inexcusable error of implicitly assuming harm... In contrast, Judge Silver has decided she is not bound by the Constitution and is going to trial without explicit identification of harm as a precondition to have a trial, but rather harm is something she might stumble upon AFTER the trial is finished.

From 15 Aug:
THE COURT: Well, I disagree with you on that. If that's your position [that immediate and direct harm is necessary] as to why or why not there is [Article III] jurisdiction, then I -- I disagree with you. Whether or not there's injury is a decision to be made after the case is presented and the defense is presented.

At the risk of pilling on a Judge that is drowning, the Judge does not hold a trial to discover harm, but instead holds trials to lawfully determine if a plausible, explicit claim made by the plaintiff is indeed true, in accordance with strict rules that ensure due process..

Right now, it's doubtful that Judge Silver has enough vowels to spell "due". 😀

 

[Reed Richards]

As I have said for months, the end result of this circus trial is to introduce a ruling giving the West Class a seat at the table in the failed merger. That is why the case is moving forward, damn the torpedoes! That is what Siegel wants, that is what will happen. Then, after all this moneys and time we will move on to even more litigation fighting that. If Parker really wants the West Class to have a seat, why not actually negotiate with the union and work something out? In the end that is only way they will have status, if it is even possible. I need to actually take another full read of M/B. Can the Company actually send us to arbitration as a party, or does that violate their neutrality agreement in the MOU? Even if it worked out that way, going to arbitration with APA and USAPA in agreement, and the West Class the dissenter might come out ok. Guess my question might be, when I have done some research, are we headed to arbitration no matter what? Parker might claim that really is the only way he does not get blamed. I still don't think there will be a merger, so this is academic. How about some discussion, instead of in your face? RR

 

[Reed Richards]

At least Wake and Bybee were smart enough to include harm in their analysis, though they made the inexcusable error of implicitly assuming harm... In contrast, Judge Silver has decided she is not bound by the Constitution and is going to trial without explicit identification of harm as a precondition to have a trial, but rather harm is something she might stumble upon AFTER the trial is finished.

It’s called a "witch hunt." RR

 

[Phoenix]

As I have said for months, the end result of this circus trial is to introduce a ruling giving the West Class a seat at the table in the failed merger. That is why the case is moving forward, damn the torpedoes! That is what Siegel wants, that is what will happen. Then, after all this moneys and time we will move on to even more litigation fighting that. If Parker really wants the West Class to have a seat, why not actually negotiate with the union and work something out? In the end that is only way they will have status, if it is even possible. I need to actually take another full read of M/B. Can the Company actually send us to arbitration as a party, or does that violate their neutrality agreement in the MOU? Even if it worked out that way, going to arbitration with APA and USAPA in agreement, and the West Class the dissenter might come out ok. Guess my question might be, when I have done some research, are we headed to arbitration no matter what? Parker might claim that really is the only way he does not get blamed. I still don't think there will be a merger, so this is academic. How about some discussion, instead of in your face? RR

I cant help but give Judge Silver the benefit of the doubt that she is smarter than she appears of late... It is unreasonable to accept the proposition that she is unaware of her Article III responsibilities pointed out by Pat (via increasing urgency and formality) yet she flippantly dismissed the necessity of plaintiff harm, which if true would be a violation of her oath, IMHO.

She is on dangerous ground, apparently with more parties than just the 9th.

 

[Phoenix]

It’s called a "witch hunt." RR

Since you omitted the customary phrase "no pun intended" I note your implicit concession that "witch hunt" does include an intentional pun. 😀

 

[Reed Richards]

I cant help but give Judge Silver the benefit of the doubt that she is smarter than she appears of late... It is unreasonable to accept the proposition that she is unaware of her Article III responsibilities pointed out by Pat (via increasing urgency and formality) yet she flippantly dismissed the necessity of plaintiff harm, which if true would be a violation of her oath, IMHO.

She is on
dangerous ground, apparently in more ways than one.

We all use the emotional terms like "smack down for USAPA" or "she will be treated like Wake." But in the end, as a Federal Employee she will enjoy many more years on the bench, with a nice retirement and probably full health care; no matter what the trials and tribulations of a small union pilot group at odds. Good for her, but no matter what anyone says, she has no skin in this game. She simply moves on to her next case. RR

 

[Reed Richards]

Since you omitted the customary phrase "no pun intended" I note your implicit concession that "witch hunt" does include an intentional pun. 😀

Yikes! I take it back. RR

 

[Phoenix]

We all use the emotional terms like "smack down for USAPA" or "she will be treated like Wake." But in the end, as a Federal Employee she will enjoy many more years on the bench, with a nice retirement and probably full health care; no matter what the trials and tribulations of a small union pilot group at odds. Good for her, but no matter what anyone says, she has no skin in this game. She simply moves on to her next case. RR

Being a federal judge is a mundane job because due process is easy and boring. Her willingness/eagerness to operate outside of it suggests something has persuaded her this isn't just a boring case. I would rather speculate that something got under her skin, than accept the alternative that she is really so incompetent. Which is worse.. Contemplating a world with judges that can be manipulated or a world were judges are simply random unknowns? In the former at least somebody somewhere has the possibility of occasionally having a predictable outcome.

Isn't anarchy preferable to Russian roulette?

Never mind, that's not important. The real question is what type of health care does Judge Silver get? Is she exempt from Obama (peace be upon him) health care?

 

[Metroyet]

As I have said for months, the end result of this circus trial is to introduce a ruling giving the West Class a seat at the table in the failed merger. That is why the case is moving forward, damn the torpedoes! That is what Siegel wants, that is what will happen. Then, after all this moneys and time we will move on to even more litigation fighting that. If Parker really wants the West Class to have a seat, why not actually negotiate with the union and work something out? In the end that is only way they will have status, if it is even possible. I need to actually take another full read of M/B. Can the Company actually send us to arbitration as a party, or does that violate their neutrality agreement in the MOU? Even if it worked out that way, going to arbitration with APA and USAPA in agreement, and the West Class the dissenter might come out ok. Guess my question might be, when I have done some research, are we headed to arbitration no matter what? Parker might claim that really is the only way he does not get blamed. I still don't think there will be a merger, so this is academic. How about some discussion, instead of in your face? RR

Work something out with "the union"? LOL!!! The very same people that REFUSE to even remotely fairly represent them? Sure. SYIC.