Bob owens strike ?

[Rogallo]

What kind of benefit increase are you going to get in BK?

just asking

We were gong to get pay increase during the worst econimc climate sense the depression.

The vote no guys will tell you they were protecting the profession, which is great, but how much are they going to be able to protect in BK. Know when to pick your battles.


Not blaming the unions for BK

So, you think that M&R voting down their t/a put the company into bk?

 

[Duke787]

So, you think that M&R voting down their t/a put the company into bk?

What part of "not blaming the unions for BK" do you not understand?

which word is giving you problems? <_<

 

[Duke787]

First lets see what they throw out there.

This BK will be like no other because each BK is different and many things are different between now and 2003. In 2003 unions across the industry had just recieved 30% increases months before the filings, we have already lost over 40% since 2003 and have not had an increase in three years. AA is rolling in with over $4 billion. Their planes are full, fares may not be super high but the fees are. Their revenue is strong, over $24 billion this year and their average hourly wage for mechanics not including OT is pretty much at the bottom. The company will likely cite the OT driven inflated number and we will have to show that they are trying to decieve the court because they made a choice not to hire, hiring would not only drive down OT but drive down the average wage not including OT because the starting wage is lower than competitors and we have longer progressions to the top. We could cite how AA has a relationship with several A&P schools across the country and a flexible starrting rate so they could have hired more mechanics to reduce both their OT and average costs but failed to do so. OT costs will likely be reduced as the fleet shrinks and is rebnewed as well. BK will not produce more Pilots or Mechanics and people are already leaving AA. Just heard a guy from DFW quit and got hired by SWA and a few new hires quit in Tulsa. Boeing has billions of dollars worth of contracts and has estimated that huge numbers of new mechanics will be needed for the industry. The skills that mechanics have are portable and other industries have surpassed what Aviation pays in many major urban areas. UAL which went through BK has a deal on the table thats better than what we rejected and USAIR is in Mediation. Otherwise we are below everyone else, including non-union post BK Delta. Any cuts in any way are unrealistic because the market dictates otherwise. Sure they may cite the Pension and Retiree medical, we can show how the costs for those items, which are far off in the future are more than covered by what we gave up now that nobody else gave up. Even the company said that switching to the DC plan would not net them any savings until far off in the future. In other words there is nothing left to take. If they target OH then they have to fork over the numbers and prove that they can get it done cheaper and have alternatives, looks like Timco is already late. When AA dumps all their underwater leases they wont have so many spares and 10 days is a lot of lost revenue.

Based on this we should be getting a great contract in BK.........some problems arise though, UAL went from 14000 mechs to 4000 mechs, and to work at these other fine company's you will have to uproot your family, a big reason why most of us didn't move to TUL to live the good life. Plus they are so happy at Boeing they go on strike it seems like every 4 years, actually SWA sounds good and there is no reason to stay at AA any longer if they hit our pay so hard it would be worth it to leave for SWA.

 

[700UW]

Guess you dont know Boeing and the IAM just signed a new CBA.

 

[Buck]

Based on this we should be getting a great contract in BK.........some problems arise though, UAL went from 14000 mechs to 4000 mechs, and to work at these other fine company's you will have to uproot your family, a big reason why most of us didn't move to TUL to live the good life. Plus they are so happy at Boeing they go on strike it seems like every 4 years, actually SWA sounds good and there is no reason to stay at AA any longer if they hit our pay so hard it would be worth it to leave for SWA.

Clean Air and Water and if you desire open space or can live downtown and you might see a Category XV skyscaper.

 

[OgieJFK]

actually SWA sounds good and there is no reason to stay at AA any longer if they hit our pay so hard it would be worth it to leave for SWA.

It is only a matter of time for SWA givebacks. This industry is just a race to the bottom on who will pay the least.

 

[Buck]

It is only a matter of time for SWA givebacks. This industry is just a race to the bottom on who will pay the least.

Of course there will be give backs, there representation is not as good as ours at AA.

 

[Bob Owens]

Based on this we should be getting a great contract in BK.........some problems arise though, UAL went from 14000 mechs to 4000 mechs, and to work at these other fine company's you will have to uproot your family, a big reason why most of us didn't move to TUL to live the good life. Plus they are so happy at Boeing they go on strike it seems like every 4 years, actually SWA sounds good and there is no reason to stay at AA any longer if they hit our pay so hard it would be worth it to leave for SWA.

UAL did not have OSMs, yet we still went from 14000 to 9500 mechanics.
Yep at Boeing they go on strike every four years or so but they never took paycuts and their A&Ps make more than we do. They just signed an extension with a lump sum and small raises that was more than AA offered us. They signed it before the due date.

 

[MCI transplant]

UAL did not have OSMs, yet we still went from 14000 to 9500 mechanics.
Yep at Boeing they go on strike every four years or so but they never took paycuts and their A&Ps make more than we do. They just signed an extension with a lump sum and small raises that was more than AA offered us. They signed it before the due date.

<_< ------ But Boeing ain't in BK Bob!!! As much as I agree with what your saying, the reality is your screwed!!!! The end product ain't going to look pretty for Labor!----- Been there, done that!

 

[Hopeful]

You must be in an alternate universe if you think AA is going to be writing "hefty checks" to any employee while operating under bankruptcy protection.

Relax tech,,,I was wrong when I posted this...I was referring to the return of what was paid into the prefunding by us and the company should it be terminated...I first thought the company had to refund it forgetting that is in a trust help by JP Morgan. I stand corrected.

 

[frontline]

<_< ------ But Boeing ain't in BK Bob!!! As much as I agree with what your saying, the reality is your screwed!!!! The end product ain't going to look pretty for Labor!----- Been there, done that!

Right you are. I can't even begin to tell you how I am mad as hell that we lost a chance to have some say in our fate when it comes to a new contract. To all the "hardliners" I have to say, "Are you HAPPY NOW??"

 

[Frank Szabo]

Right you are. I can't even begin to tell you how I am mad as hell that we lost a chance to have some say in our fate when it comes to a new contract. To all the "hardliners" I have to say, "Are you HAPPY NOW??"

The TA you're no doubt referring to would have, in effect, given the company two bites at the apple. The TA was concessionary as more would have been gone and would have placed the under 50 crowd as second-class citizens. The old bastards did that for years - screwing the younger group to get a little extra for themselves.

I do agree we could have been getting a few extra bucks at someone elses expense had the TA been bought but at least the company gets one bite now instead of two.

You and many others are running around wringing your hands and scared to death when nobody has a clue what's going to happen and no motions have been filed re: maintenance operations. If you want to shake in fear, do it privately and quit spinning rumors.

 

[Overspeed]

UAL did not have OSMs, yet we still went from 14000 to 9500 mechanics.
Yep at Boeing they go on strike every four years or so but they never took paycuts and their A&Ps make more than we do. They just signed an extension with a lump sum and small raises that was more than AA offered us. They signed it before the due date.

You are right UAL did not have OSMs. What's your point? That they layoffs would have been less if they had OSMs because the labor cost is close to or equal to outsourcing? Isn't that the argument that created OSMs in the first place? That the work would be outsourced if the union did not agree to a lower wage system? Oh I get it, you would rather have jobs outsourced so a smaller group could get higher wages as long as it includes you.

Comparing Boeing to AA? Really? If AA was involved in oligopoly with a few airlines the TWU and AA would love it!

 

[MCI transplant]

Right you are. I can't even begin to tell you how I am mad as hell that we lost a chance to have some say in our fate when it comes to a new contract. To all the "hardliners" I have to say, "Are you HAPPY NOW??"

<_< ------- Do you really think that by excepting that T.A. it would have changed things?-------- I think not! At best it may have delayed it. But I feel the posibility of a Chapt.11 filing was always an option for management! It was their plan "B", if they couldn't get the concessions they wanted from the Unions.----- All their Unions!

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ------- Do you really think that by excepting that T.A. it would have changed things?-------- I think not! At best it may have delayed it. But I feel the posibility of a Chapt.11 filing was always an option for management! It was their plan "B", if they couldn't get the concessions they wanted from the Unions.----- All their Unions!

Thanks to hindsight, one could argue that even the small raise we would have gotten as well os holiday increase and pay and line pay, one would have had more money in one's pocket even until BK.
No one can say for sure whether AA would have or would not have filed anyway...NO ONE!
The guys I work with now have basically said it wouldve been worth taking the rejected TA and maybe, just maybe they would not have filed and pension preserved.

I just don't see how anyone could say with a 100% degree of certainty what would have happened...If anyone can predict anything so accurately, then they should be picking the lottery numbers!