BOS-LHR downgauge

[737823]

It looks like effective 1 Dec 2012 BOS-LHR will be reduced from a daily 767-400ER to a daily 767-300ER although apparently they will maintain the flat bed seating and AVOD in both cabins. Took the 764 once on this route, it really is a great aircraft and not a usual sight at BOS. I wonder how the yields are, AA has pared back the route to a single 757 (four years ago it was 2x 777) but BA is keeping 2x 777 and 1x 744 this winter.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

The 763s with flat beds have identical amenities - just about 30 seats less. DL's plan is for the 763 and 764 to be identical in features.

Now that the 744 fleet is nearly done, focus on cabin mods will shift heavily to the 763 fleet, of which a subset has already been completed and have been rotating through various transpac and JFK competitive markets.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I wonder how the yields are.
Josh

DOT data shows that DL gets higher average fares on its own metal than AA does on its own.
Product really does matter and DL is providing a product that is capable of capturing the high value passengers.
BA carries the bulk of the passengers in both markets and also obtains higher yields.
The same trend exist in JFK-LHR where DL competes directly against AA/BA as well.

DL is not trying in BOS-LHR or in any LHR market to be the largest carrier or match the capacity that AA/BA have or even UA and therefore they don't care if they are the 3rd largest carrier in capacity. They have used their LHR presence to obtain their share of premium revenue and in so doing have further reduced the advantages that AA has in a number of key markets including BOS and NYC - driving the shift in corporate revenue growth at DL.

The notion that DL can't compete on a smaller scale at LHR is not supported by facts.

BTW, DL pilots are saying they have been told in briefings with mgmt that DL is looking for more LHR slots, a stronger transpac and west coast presence, and are preparing for an aggressive internal expansion in Latin America unless DL acquires AA assets.

 

[FA Mikey]

So there were 2 daily delta LHR flights. Now there is only one and that it having its A/C chopped down.

Yet you are going to insist that they one flight is making a killing, and AA/BA with the 4 daily is running for cover?

 

[wings396]

Now Mikey, you are beginning to see the real WT. He will side with you on one thing, and then RAM Delta superiority down your throat as soon as he can...

 

[WorldTraveler]

So there were 2 daily delta LHR flights. Now there is only one and that it having its A/C chopped down.

Yet you are going to insist that they one flight is making a killing, and AA/BA with the 4 daily is running for cover?

Did I say DL was making a killing?
I said DL is using the BOS-LHR flight to achieve corporate objectives esp. in the BOS market where DL has deep historic roots... but so have other carriers as well... BOS is still a highly competitive market.

DL DID take advantage of the AA/BA JV to acquire even one slot pair to start a new flight - no other US carrier even applied, IIRC.

DL has been able to put a product in the market that has been sufficient to obtain above average fares from the perspective of US carriers.... but since has a joint venture and and also has 757s, their focus has probably been to soak up slots and move the premium revenue to BA which is shared w/ AA anyway.

The message is clear, though, that DL IS in the BOS-LHR market - they have tried to be in the market before and finally found a way to sustain a presence - and they are doing well enough that there is no reason to think they will leave.

From a cabin perspective, the 763 is a 210 seat version of the same 245 seat 764 that DL has used since it launched the flight. Fewer seats, slightly lower costs, same product.

 

[FA Mikey]

Recheck your statement, Why yes you did.

As we see they are slowing dropping out. From 3 LHR flts they are down to 1. They are down grading the EQ to a much smaller plane. I would think the extra 35 seats would be a great boost, but as you imply is nothing more than a drain. But then 35 extra seats are a drain if they are just being flown empty. So now they are flying a smaller more expensive A/C. Best of luck to that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

please quote the words that you translate into "making a killing" or that "AA/BA was running for cover."

Please show me.

 

[737823]

Now Mikey, you are beginning to see the real WT. He will side with you on one thing, and then RAM Delta superiority down your throat as soon as he can...

Just as you do whenever someone legitimately criticizes US in the slightest. How many flights does US have to LHR? Last I checked they have a single departure from PHL, fewer than any other US carriers that serves LHR. US has the smallest premium cabin of all evidenced by the market they serve. It's apparent the market deems AA, BA, DL, UA, etc superior to US just look at their Envoy fares. The round trip to Tel Aviv was $1000 less than other options including UA (EWR) or DL (JFK), same holds for the LHR market.

Josh

 

[metopower]

Delta normally down grades capacity during slow season ie winter months to Europe. 763 for a 764 is the most seamless way to do it. Everything is lower in costs and it appears the same to the costumer. Sounds like a win win to me

 

[wings396]

Just as you do whenever someone legitimately criticizes US in the slightest. How many flights does US have to LHR? Last I checked they have a single departure from PHL, fewer than any other US carriers that serves LHR. US has the smallest premium cabin of all evidenced by the market they serve. It's apparent the market deems AA, BA, DL, UA, etc superior to US just look at their Envoy fares. The round trip to Tel Aviv was $1000 less than other options including UA (EWR) or DL (JFK), same holds for the LHR market.

Josh

Hell you criticize every airline at some point. Don't like US, don't fly em. You can't fool me Joshie, your cheap little butt will fly whoever has the lowest fare even if you have to sit in the lav to get it.

 

[FA Mikey]

Delta normally down grades capacity during slow season ie winter months to Europe. 763 for a 764 is the most seamless way to do it.

Is that what they did to the Miami flight or the early Boston flight as well?

 

[metopower]

No . Just moved it to someplace that made more money in those cases.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL jumped on the MIA and BOS flights for 1 reason and 1 reason only... because they provided critical mass at LHR via slots made available as a result of the AA/BA JV which dictated that a certain number of slots be made available to competitors. Those slots are/were better timed slots than most of the slots DL obtained from AF/KL to start DL's first batch of LHR service.
DL flew both BOS-LGW and MIA-LGW before so they have some knowledge of the market and were willing to take the risk to build a presence at LHR via low cost slots in markets where DL has a decent presence.
I'm still not sure how it happened, but DL managed to add an additional roundtrip on ATL-LHR at the time they discontinued MIA... obviously ATL is a given money maker for DL while MIA is a risk.
DL has enough of a presence in the BOS-LHR market to get the corporate revenue it needs in a market where the only choices were oneworld or Virgin. For a market that is as large as BOS-LHR and is also one of the lowest cost markets to operate because of the shorter length (not sure if DL uses an augmented crew on BOS-LHR or not but they probably do not need to), DL can pick up enough business to justify its presence, again adding in the larger size that the route gives DL at LHR via a well-timed low cost slot.

The 763 w/ lie flat is no different in concept than the 319/320 or the 737-700/800 .... right size the capacity to the market.

Typically, DL's 764s shift heavily to S. America in the northern hemisphere winter.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'm still not sure how it happened, but DL managed to add an additional roundtrip on ATL-LHR at the time they discontinued MIA.

It's not unheard of for slots to be shifted to a different route than initially used for...

Jim