Enough is enough! All systems red!

[Ken MacTiernan]

Duke,

"Bob and Ken said that AMFA was going to be the AMT savior, but it didn't work out to well for NWA and UAL."


I never said AMFA was the AMT savior. What I posted, and fell free to re-read what I wrote, was and still remains true that AMFA is a DEMOCRATIC CRAFT union where accountability is the rule. I also wrote, which also remains true, that the twu is an UNdemocratic industrial union where there is no accountability in the intl. level. Case in point:

"If the union heads didn't know about them, then they're bumbling idiots." The Pilots and Flight Attendant's unions each had their presidents voted out of office after the concession's "shAAred sAAcrifice" experiment but not the twu. Why? Go to a twu national convention and you will see why.

 

[The Goose]

At the risk of a "yes they did, no they didn't agrument" the company did have a gun to our collective heads. If I recall correctly, Carty had the lawyers on the way to the courthouse as the APFA waited for the vote. Carty was all set to file. He was considering filing before the TWU and APA asked to consider
re-negotiation of the contracts. As for union control of exec pay that isn't a unions job. The unions took Carty's word that there would be restraint and "shared sacrifice". That's the reason for the uproar when it was discovered his word wasn't worth anything and therefore his ability to lead was worthless as well.

You do a wonderful job of repeating the company line (I certainly hope you really don't believe the tripe).

This would have been great fodder for a drama movie - the lawyers on the courthouse steps receiving a cell call telling them to stand down.

First - if you believe Carty acted on his own re: the executive slush fund, you're a fool. The creation of the $46MM fund had to have been approved by the board of directors - Carty and monions were nothing more than the fools that made it happen. Afterwards, like a good little boy, Carty then fell on his sword and left the company allowing the board to install Arpey as CEO, whose only claim to fame was grounding all of the company's aircraft on 9/11/2001. Other than that one action, Arpey was nothing more than the typical bean counter, performing his function near and below the call of duty.

I believe to this day there was no iminent bankruptcy filing in store if all three unions didn't buy those concessionary contracts. Why? The giveaway was when all three unions were invited to inspect AMR's books to "see for themselves that AMR could file" for Chapter 11. If one would have taken the time to read the US Code (the actual bankruptcy statutes), it would be plain there was not (and still is not) any "qualifications" with regard to a reorganization filing (ie, Chapter 11). A perfectly solvent company can file for Chapter 11 protection (by law) although there's no good reason one would.

A Chapter 11 filing was (in 2003) and is (after the law's "overhaul" on 31 October 2005) the absolute last thing this company wants as they would have to account for much, both to the employees and the bankruptcy courts.

As it is, the company won that round as their expenditures on labor and benefits were contained (as they desired) and the TWU International won as their income from dues was hardly affected. We, the workers, were the only losers, as usual, but not in the way that first comes to mind.

 

[Bob Owens]

Eliminating a significant portion of their pay will force the good ones on to the street for better jobs while the incompentent remain behind. Then you will have 100% incompentents rather than 80%. Good people won't replace them

The same goes for mechanics and other workers as well, many have been pushed so low that they no longer have the fear or fall for the false security, but if we leave we want to shut the door, and make sure it stays shut.

 

[Bob Owens]

You do a wonderful job of repeating the company line (I certainly hope you really don't believe the tripe).

This would have been great fodder for a drama movie - the lawyers on the courthouse steps receiving a cell call telling them to stand down.

First - if you believe Carty acted on his own re: the executive slush fund, you're a fool. The creation of the $46MM fund had to have been approved by the board of directors - Carty and monions were nothing more than the fools that made it happen. Afterwards, like a good little boy, Carty then fell on his sword and left the company allowing the board to install Arpey as CEO, whose only claim to fame was grounding all of the company's aircraft on 9/11/2001. Other than that one action, Arpey was nothing more than the typical bean counter, performing his function near and below the call of duty.

I believe to this day there was no iminent bankruptcy filing in store if all three unions didn't buy those concessionary contracts. Why? The giveaway was when all three unions were invited to inspect AMR's books to "see for themselves that AMR could file" for Chapter 11. If one would have taken the time to read the US Code (the actual bankruptcy statutes), it would be plain there was not (and still is not) any "qualifications" with regard to a reorganization filing (ie, Chapter 11). A perfectly solvent company can file for Chapter 11 protection (by law) although there's no good reason one would.

A Chapter 11 filing was (in 2003) and is (after the law's "overhaul" on 31 October 2005) the absolute last thing this company wants as they would have to account for much, both to the employees and the bankruptcy courts.

As it is, the company won that round as their expenditures on labor and benefits were contained (as they desired) and the TWU International won as their income from dues was hardly affected. We, the workers, were the only losers, as usual, but not in the way that first comes to mind.

I agree.

It should be interesting to see what gets spewed out by the corporate media and the International as we get closer to July 26th.

 

[737823]

I just flew in from LA this afternoon and noticed the FAs are no longer wearing the red "Got Guts" buttons-the've been turned back to yellow. Some FAs still have the red lanyards for their ID cards/keys/etc. Is the APFA conceding they won't be released anytime soon and acknowledging the deteriorating state of AMR?

After all Laura Glading said the following:

"As will the National Mediation Board, we must also consider the economic reality facing our country. Who could have imagined three years ago that this country would be in the financial state it is, with the unemployment rate hovering around 9 percent? The political reality is to a large extent defined by the state of the economy. Consequently, it is clear to us that the White House will avoid any kind of disruption. And we cannot lose sight of the fact that the National Mediation Board answers to the White House.

"Based on the totality of these circumstances we must, reluctantly but realistically, conclude that the NMB will not release the parties into a thirty-day cooling off period any time soon."

Read more: http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2011/03/apfa-president-tells-members-nmb-wont-release-union-from-contract-talks-with-american.html#ixzz1VX75kw3G

Josh

 

[odie01]

I just flew in from LA this afternoon and noticed the FAs are no longer wearing the red "Got Guts" buttons-the've been turned back to yellow. Some FAs still have the red lanyards for their ID cards/keys/etc. Is the APFA conceding they won't be released anytime soon and acknowledging the deteriorating state of AMR?

After all Laura Glading said the following:

"As will the National Mediation Board, we must also consider the economic reality facing our country. Who could have imagined three years ago that this country would be in the financial state it is, with the unemployment rate hovering around 9 percent? The political reality is to a large extent defined by the state of the economy. Consequently, it is clear to us that the White House will avoid any kind of disruption. And we cannot lose sight of the fact that the National Mediation Board answers to the White House.

"Based on the totality of these circumstances we must, reluctantly but realistically, conclude that the NMB will not release the parties into a thirty-day cooling off period any time soon."

Read more: http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_talk/2011/03/apfa-president-tells-members-nmb-wont-release-union-from-contract-talks-with-american.html#ixzz1VX75kw3G

Josh

That's some pretty good sleuthing their Dick Fcking Tracy! I mean the the red and yellow sh-t!

 

[eolesen]

Wasn't the whole point of having the red and yellow buttons so that frequent flyers would take notice of who may or may not be showing up to work?...

 

[IORFA]

They're still red. Nothings changed.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Sorry but this rant sounds whiny to me. I get that routes have been cut, but do you really expect AA to fly routes where they are not making money? Airlines are supposed to be a business, and profits are the goal.

The MD80s are in fact on the way out (did you miss the world's largest ever aircraft order a few weeks ago?)

The labor disputes are at least as much the fault of the unions as they are AA's managers. These particular union leaders don't seem to understand that negotiations involve give and take. I hear a lot about taking, but nothing about giving. There's no mentality of compromise to be found in the union halls.

But by all means, vote with your wallet. Virgin America has great service to the west coast from Boston, but a shitty frequent flier program. It's always going to be something.

 

[Hopeful]

The labor disputes are at least as much the fault of the unions as they are AA's managers. These particular union leaders don't seem to understand that negotiations involve give and take. I hear a lot about taking, but nothing about giving. There's no mentality of compromise to be found in the union halls.

I guess we didn't give enough in 2003?

The union has backed off of earlier demands of restore and more, or haven't you heard? They have even removed the premium for the line guys while the boys in TULE got a piece of that action as well as their coveted weekends off.
The company took something off the table every subsequent time they met.
As unhappy I am with AA, I am equally as unhappy with the TWU.
Unless you are insinuating that AA has offered to give back crumbs from the massive concessions of 2003...That is merely giving us scraps of what he earned decades ago.

Please don't tell me negotiations are about give in take. In this case, all the company has done is take. Giving me back a fraction of what i had is not "GIVING."

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I guess we didn't give enough in 2003?

The union has backed off of earlier demands of restore and more, or haven't you heard? They have even removed the premium for the line guys while the boys in TULE got a piece of that action as well as their coveted weekends off.
The company took something off the table every subsequent time they met.
As unhappy I am with AA, I am equally as unhappy with the TWU.
Unless you are insinuating that AA has offered to give back crumbs from the massive concessions of 2003...That is merely giving us scraps of what he earned decades ago.

Please don't tell me negotiations are about give in take. In this case, all the company has done is take. Giving me back a fraction of what i had is not "GIVING."

Hopeful save your breath. This guy would disagree with you if you told him the grass was green. Don't waste your time giving him the facts. He, like the company, will refuse to acknowlege any of the points you make reguarding the greedy, management team. You and I know these idiots would not know how to run a lemonade stand never mind an airline but the BOD keeps them on. Why would they do that? Obviously they like the job they are doing. This must mean the plan is to continue to lose money so you can low ball the unions and then steal more bonuses and raises. These are this guy's heroes. If we all quit giving him the statisfaction of answering his assinine posts then maybe he'll go back to watching Fox News and leave us alone.

 

[737823]

Sorry but this rant sounds whiny to me. I get that routes have been cut, but do you really expect AA to fly routes where they are not making money? Airlines are supposed to be a business, and profits are the goal.

The MD80s are in fact on the way out (did you miss the world's largest ever aircraft order a few weeks ago?)

The labor disputes are at least as much the fault of the unions as they are AA's managers. These particular union leaders don't seem to understand that negotiations involve give and take. I hear a lot about taking, but nothing about giving. There's no mentality of compromise to be found in the union halls.

But by all means, vote with your wallet. Virgin America has great service to the west coast from Boston, but a shitty frequent flier program. It's always going to be something.

I started this thread over a year ago and bumped it because the FAs appear to have changed their pins on some of my recent flights. Since I started the thread, MD-80s have been removed from Logan and I've only been on three MDs in the past year among 70+ flights. Virgin is okay and is good for last minute tickets but I generally stick to AA.

Josh

 

[Frank Szabo]

Hopeful save your breath. This guy would disagree with you if you told him the grass was green. Don't waste your time giving him the facts. He, like the company, will refuse to acknowlege any of the points you make reguarding the greedy, management team. You and I know these idiots would not know how to run a lemonade stand never mind an airline but the BOD keeps them on. Why would they do that? Obviously they like the job they are doing. This must mean the plan is to continue to lose money so you can low ball the unions and then steal more bonuses and raises. These are this guy's heroes. If we all quit giving him the statisfaction of answering his assinine posts then maybe he'll go back to watching Fox News and leave us alone.

I've had the prick on ignore for quite some time and I must say it does wonders for the blood pressure - I'd suggest, Mr. Hopeful, that you do the same, like the OldGuy suggests, and perhaps the SOB will go away when nobody wants to play.