Calling In Sick?

[mweiss]

Exactly smart guy. Now imagine how much worse it would be minus unions.

I don't have to. In case you haven't looked around you in the past thirty years, I'll help you out here. Most companies are nonunion. Got that? Most companies are nonunion. And their CEOs don't seem to walk away with better deals than US's did.

Would slavery come back to do the tasks of the masters, damn right it would and what station would you be in given that kind of world, smart guy? One of bondage?

Hmmm...I've worked for a union before, and I've worked in a nonunion shop as well. I came out far better financially on the nonunion path. No slavery, just a good working salary for a good day's work.

You need to get off these boards and live reality instead of looking at everything with what you believe makes the world go around, business.

Business is business. Unless something has changed recently, US Airways is still a business. Once it becomes a charity, we can start to discuss how things should look from a charitable point of view.

 

[mweiss]

Ideas that exist independently of your thought process are indeed frightening.

What's frightening is your suggestion that an understanding of the mechanics of commerce is justification for genocide.

 

[700UW]

Unions the people that brought you the 40 hour work week.
Unions the people that brought you dignity in the workplace.
Unions the people that brought you labor laws.
Unions the people that brought you safety regulations.
Unions the people that brought you an even playing field in the workplace.
Unions the people that brought you child labor laws.
Unions the people that brought you medical insurance.
Unions the people that brought you the right to negotiate your workrules, benefits and compensation.

Do I need to go on?

For those of you who forgot about history go look up the following:

Triangle Shirt Factory Fire
Hamlet, NC Chicken Plant Fire
Detroit Sitdown at GM
Haymarket Square
Pinkertons

I can go on and on for ever, but you can go back to ancient history and find evidence of unions, there were guilds, and all skilled artisans belonged to them. Our founding fathers back in the 1700's were guild members.

So for those of you who think the companies pay you and give you benefits because they are nice, need to learn alot and take the time to educate yourself of the history of working people.


We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936

 

[mweiss]

700,

It's not 1936 anymore. Yes, unions played a critical role in shaping post-industrial employment conditions. Since then, those changed working conditions have become a standard part of the workplace, even in nonunion shops. Hanging on to unions out of a sense of nostalgia for people dying in Haymarket is a bit misguided.

 

[700UW]

The Hamlet fire was not too long ago, and everything is relevant because history repeats itself.

But you will never ever be a fan of the common worker and unions, that is quite clear since you are majoring at a business school.

But you should never discount another person's beliefs, you can disagree with them, but you should take the time and be unbiased about history, because that is how we go to where we are.

Every advance in this half-century-Social Security, civil rights, Medicare, aid to education, one after another-came with the support and leadership of American Labor.
President Jimmy Carter, 1980

 

[Bear96]

Since then, those changed working conditions have become a standard part of the workplace, even in nonunion shops.

Michael, surely even you realize many of those "non-union shops" mostly provide any benefits over and above the minimum that is required by law merely as insurance to keep unions off the property. (DL comes to mind.) In other words, even employees at those non-union shops have unions to thank for what benefits and improved working conditions they have.

 

[cavalier]

What's frightening is your suggestion that an understanding of the mechanics of commerce is justification for genocide.

Your posts are so riddled with repugnance towards union members, your life obviously revolves around posting your disgust of the very people who made it possible for you to be able to sit on your fanny day in and day out spewing your sorry sensibilities.



One can only imagine what creates such minds and I have a good imagination.

 

[mweiss]

Michael, surely even you realize many of those "non-union shops" mostly provide any benefits over and above the minimum that is required by law merely as insurance to keep unions off the property.

Sure, many do, but many others do not. How many union shops are there in Silicon Valley, one of the most left-wing areas of the country?

 

[mweiss]

...you will never ever be a fan of the common worker and unions, that is quite clear since you are majoring at a business school.

A nice, prejudicial comment. I'm mighty atypical of business school students. I'm not the one who was cheating on an ethics exam (yes, I actually know of this happening). My goal is to understand how to make the best decisions possible for whatever company I happen to work for. I'm very much a fan of the "common worker." My comments on US are quite different from those regarding, say, NW, CO, or WN, because the situation at US is quite different. There's no time left to rearrange deck chairs at US.

But you should never discount another person's beliefs,

Where did I do that? Or are you referring to cav's genocide comment? I'll discount to my dying breath anyone's justification for genocide. Sorry if that offends you.

President Jimmy Carter, 1980

Let's not be naive. You know as well as I do that he had to say that, whether or not he believed it, because he needed the union vote. Not that it did him much good. 🙁

Civil rights was hardly a union issue. Neither, incidentally, was Social Security. Nor Medicare. Those were all government actions. Yes, I'm sure unions supported most, if not all, of those actions, but so what? Those aren't union issues. The 40-hour workweek, sure. OSHA, yup. Not racial integration, though.

 

[mweiss]

Your posts are so riddled with repugnance towards union members, your life obviously revolves around posting your disgust of the very people who made it possible for you to be able to sit on your fanny day in and day out spewing your sorry sensibilities.

My goodness, aren't we a little judgemental here? I have nothing against union members, and certainly feel no disgust toward them. I have something against most unions, but that's because I believe they do more harm than good to the very people they ostensibly represent.

You have no idea what my life revolves around, though. Not even the faintest inkling.

 

[cavalier]

You have no idea what my life revolves around, though. Not even the faintest inkling.

Weren't we all exposed to this when you and pitguy went at each other?

Nevertheless, a lot of your posts are anti union sentiment. I won't go back and forth with you; we are two completely different individuals and will never agree. The best would be to agree to disagree.

I’ll tell you what’s really funny. I may be leaving this company and it will most likely be a non-union environment, which I have worked most of my life in to begin with.

 

[mweiss]

Weren't we all exposed to this when you and pitguy went at each other?

You were exposed to a few facts, none of which seem to have given pitguy an accurate picture. My world is so foreign to him that he cannot comprehend how I got here.

Nevertheless, a lot of your posts are anti union sentiment.

Though not for the reasons that the antiunion people with whom you are familiar have that sentiment. I have no interest in crushing the little guy. I've just compared what unions do today with what they were doing in the 1920s and 30s and see how they have in many ways morphed into the very entities they were formed to fight in the first place. It's a tragedy.

 

[MrAeroMan]

Spoken like a true blue dido head. I heard that statement when I started out years and years ago only to hear yet again live right here, how wrong you are and here is why.

As long as we have the human condition we will have unions to act as the absolutely necessary balancing device to keep corporate America from exploiting the very people that make them extremely wealthy.

When CEO and CFO's stop stealing via golden parachutes millions off the top while at the very same time leaving employees impoverished in their wake, than and only then will I change my attitude.

I laugh at all you self-righteous people who work yourselves to death making another person wealthy as you receive that-a-boys for your sweat and blood.

Sick time abuse is nothing compared to corporate America’s raping and exploiting of its workers.

Stop looking through your windows of distortion, integrity my behind. Lead by example and everything else will fall into place, otherwise, get real!

You heard that statement when you were starting out and it's true today only to a much greater degree. Here's my proof, where's yours?
The number of union members in the US today is roughly the same as in 1952 yet the nations workforce has more than doubled over the last 50 years to roughly 121 million. Organized labor accounted for 35.5% of the nonfarm payrolls in 1945 and in 2003 it was 12.9%. It was 13.3% in 2002. Look to the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics and see for yourself if you dare look.
You come on here sticking your chest out thumping it like the great savior how you plan to stand up to the big bad robber barons yet you cower like a coward in the corner when it comes to standing up to the union leadership that is so lost and corrupt it can't find it's way from one end of a straight line to another with written directions. You harp about how the executives leave with millions yet you don't dare peep about how much money your union dues thieving leaders pad their pay with exhorbitant expense accounts. In case you're having trouble seeing the forest through the trees let me help you out...they're both wrong for doing what they're doing!!
You laugh at all the people you've given the label as self-righteous who work to make others rich but my question to you is what exactly are you doing? Do you own your own business and work at it making yourself rich or do you work for another? By your own admission you don't so don't go pointing fingers at those that at least had the courage to take a leap of faith and land on their own feet. If they fall they have only themselves to blame and that's why you don't do it because you'd have no one to blame for your own failures. You don't have the guts to do that or you would've already done it. It's easier to hide behind your union card and point fingers at others. Truth is you're jealous of those that have taken that leap and done well for themselves.
Then you go on to rewrite history and make it sound like organized labor has given us the freedoms we enjoy in this country. I hate to tell you Dr. Leftist it wasn't organized labor. It was the United States military and their members who gave us those freedoms. While many of them were union members it wasn't because of the unions that we have those freedoms today. I guess you're use to making an issue fit to your warped, twisted, leftist wacko view.

 

[PITbull]

I don't have to. In case you haven't looked around you in the past thirty years, I'll help you out here. Most companies are nonunion. Got that? Most companies are nonunion. And their CEOs don't seem to walk away with better deals than US's did.
Hmmm...I've worked for a union before, and I've worked in a nonunion shop as well. I came out far better financially on the nonunion path. No slavery, just a good working salary for a good day's work.
Business is business. Unless something has changed recently, US Airways is still a business. Once it becomes a charity, we can start to discuss how things should look from a charitable point of view.

mweiss,

You got to benefit in salary and benefits because of Labor's fight for fair wage and affordable benefits in this country. The companies you work for have elevated salary and better benefits just to keep unions out. So, indirectly, YOU have benefited, but too proud to recognize this or admit it. GOT THAT?


My sister is a VP of a company who has three huge "call centers", San Francisco, San Antonio, and Scranton. She knows what to do in order to keep unions out. All she does is listen to the Friday messages from our CEO, and knows what not to say. She has been watching U, and knows how to treat her employees by doing the complete opposite of USAirways.

Her words to her managers.

 

[cavalier]

You heard that statement when you were starting out and it's true today only to a much greater degree. Here's my proof, where's yours?
The number of union members in the US today is roughly the same as in 1952 yet the nations workforce has more than doubled over the last 50 years to roughly 121 million. Organized labor accounted for 35.5% of the nonfarm payrolls in 1945 and in 2003 it was 12.9%. It was 13.3% in 2002. Look to the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics and see for yourself if you dare look.
You come on here sticking your chest out thumping it like the great savior how you plan to stand up to the big bad robber barons yet you cower like a coward in the corner when it comes to standing up to the union leadership that is so lost and corrupt it can't find it's way from one end of a straight line to another with written directions. You harp about how the executives leave with millions yet you don't dare peep about how much money your union dues thieving leaders pad their pay with exhorbitant expense accounts. In case you're having trouble seeing the forest through the trees let me help you out...they're both wrong for doing what they're doing!!
You laugh at all the people you've given the label as self-righteous who work to make others rich but my question to you is what exactly are you doing? Do you own your own business and work at it making yourself rich or do you work for another? By your own admission you don't so don't go pointing fingers at those that at least had the courage to take a leap of faith and land on their own feet. If they fall they have only themselves to blame and that's why you don't do it because you'd have no one to blame for your own failures. You don't have the guts to do that or you would've already done it. It's easier to hide behind your union card and point fingers at others. Truth is you're jealous of those that have taken that leap and done well for themselves.
Then you go on to rewrite history and make it sound like organized labor has given us the freedoms we enjoy in this country. I hate to tell you Dr. Leftist it wasn't organized labor. It was the United States military and their members who gave us those freedoms. While many of them were union members it wasn't because of the unions that we have those freedoms today. I guess you're use to making an issue fit to your warped, twisted, leftist wacko view.

This is to both you and mweiss as I was going to post only to mweiss then you came on reamed me a new ahole.

Remember, both corporate America and unions are made of people, who, believe it or not are fallible.


Now to you MrAeroMan:

You don't know who I am or what I am about. I will just say most people could not walk in my shoes very long. So don't come on here calling me things you are completely in the dark about. I just stated on a previous post that I will be going to a non-union environment and have worked in such places most of my life. I see both sides very clearly and understand very clearly that corruption is rampant on both sides, but I happed to fall in the bottom of the heap and my outcry allows me to survive while the other end determines whether it's a vacation in Bora bora or the French Riviera this year. So I chose to jeer for my side of the equation. I do agree with what you say about they are both wrong; yes they are because fallible men are on both sides.

What has happened to this company is mostly, I say again mostly, management’s doing. Most of management will walk away unscathed while the common folk will need to bow their heads and ask for food stamps, this is what drives my attitude because most people in upper management don't know what real hardships are, and never will in this life.