Changes A'coming

[BoeingBoy]

The next pilot permanent bid for August was published today.....

System fleet changes in this bid (reflects changes from June bid):

Loss of 9 B737's by 8/21/05 - 7 300's & 2 400's
Loss of 1 B757 by 8/21/05
Loss of A319's per previous agreement with GE - 1 by 8/21/05 + 3 by 9/11/05

System pilot staffing changes:

Reduction of 14 757/767 domestic lines, with increase of 2 C/O reserve & 3 F/O reserve
Reduction of 43 737 lines, with increase of 8 C/O reserve & 36 F/O reserve
Reduction of 44 319 series lines, with increase of 22 C/O reserve & 51 F/O reserve
Net change - reduction of 81 pilot positions

Domicile staffing changes:

CLT - loss of 33 positions
DCA - loss of 12 positions
LGA - increase of 31 positions
PHL - loss of 19 positions
PIT - loss of 48 positions

EDIT - EDIT - EDIT

I got the closing wrong - it's May 25, not June 25. Sorry.

For those US pilots on this forum, bids must be updated by 2330 on 5/25/05.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

The next pilot permanent bid for August was published today.....

System fleet changes in this bid (reflects changes from June bid):

Loss of 9 B737's by 8/21/05 - 7 300's & 2 400's
Loss of 1 B757 by 8/21/05
Loss of A319's per previous agreement with GE - 1 by 8/21/05 + 3 by 9/11/05

System pilot staffing changes:

Reduction of 14 757/767 domestic lines, with increase of 2 C/O reserve & 3 F/O reserve
Reduction of 43 737 lines, with increase of 8 C/O reserve & 36 F/O reserve
Reduction of 44 319 series lines, with increase of 22 C/O reserve & 51 F/O reserve
Net change - reduction of 81 pilot positions

Domicile staffing changes:

CLT - loss of 33 positions
DCA - loss of 12 positions
LGA - increase of 31 positions
PHL - loss of 19 positions
PIT - loss of 48 positions

For those US pilots on this forum, bids must be updated by 2330 on 6/25/05.

Jim

[post="270152"][/post]​

He should be happy. Plus 31 in LGA.

 

[BoeingBoy]

For any pilots that have already read the original post....

I got the closing date wrong - tried to jump a month ahead.

THE BID CLOSES MAY 25, NOT JUNE 25.

Sorry for the error.

Jim

 

[CaptianBoomer]

Another loss of pilot positions.......would seem catastrophic to the careers of some junior U pilots. However, I suspect as tight the staffing has been with people quitting in droves, this will probably not result in any more furloughs......

However, what it does do is further place a strain on the careers and family lives as more U pilots entering their 20th year of service get placed on reserve, which generally sucks. The of course are the ramifications of being 52, a junior reserve, and being merged with a 30 year old new hire from another company that is in the same relative position. Not a pretty picture.

Best to all the U pilots out there. You have kept the light on with your professional attitudes and you continually amaze me.

Someday, you will be rewarded for your hard work.

Boomer

 

[BoeingBoy]

However, I suspect as tight the staffing has been with people quitting in droves, this will probably not result in any more furloughs......

[post="270209"][/post]​

Correct, as my understanding goes. It does give a glimpse of the attrition, though - 81 since the last bid closed in late March (28th, IIRC).

Jim

 

[FlyUs]

Boeing Boy, I'll assume from your post that there are no changes for Boston.

 

[BoeingBoy]

At least for pilots, no.

Jim

Edit - Hope I didn't mislead or sound abrupt - you are correct - there are no changes in the number of lines for pilots from the June bid.

 

[FlyUs]

At least for pilots, no.

Jim

Edit - Hope I didn't mislead or sound abrupt - you are correct - there are no changes in the number of lines for pilots from the June bid.

[post="270237"][/post]​

Thanks.

 

[UALDC767]

The next pilot permanent bid for August was published today.....

System fleet changes in this bid (reflects changes from June bid):

Loss of 9 B737's by 8/21/05 - 7 300's & 2 400's
Loss of 1 B757 by 8/21/05
Loss of A319's per previous agreement with GE - 1 by 8/21/05 + 3 by 9/11/05

System pilot staffing changes:

Reduction of 14 757/767 domestic lines, with increase of 2 C/O reserve & 3 F/O reserve
Reduction of 43 737 lines, with increase of 8 C/O reserve & 36 F/O reserve
Reduction of 44 319 series lines, with increase of 22 C/O reserve & 51 F/O reserve
Net change - reduction of 81 pilot positions

Domicile staffing changes:

CLT - loss of 33 positions
DCA - loss of 12 positions
LGA - increase of 31 positions
PHL - loss of 19 positions
PIT - loss of 48 positions

EDIT - EDIT - EDIT

I got the closing wrong - it's May 25, not June 25. Sorry.

For those US pilots on this forum, bids must be updated by 2330 on 5/25/05.

Jim

[post="270152"][/post]​

Jim,

Just trying to understand another airline's staffing model. With the loss of so many lines of flying, but an increase of Reserve lines....is that an attempt to limit/avoid surplussing pilots out of a domicile?

Thanks,

DC

 

[BoeingBoy]

While I don't get involved in the process of coming up with those numbers, what we generally see is a shift of "extra" staffing to lower paying positions. Hence the addition of F/O reserve slots, especially on the narrow-bodies. Since we're especially short-staffed in certain positions on certain airplanes, you see some of the "extra" going to C/O reserve or certain bases.

There is some attempt to keep time from swinging back & forth between bases wiley-niley. To be fair, the folks that put the bids together are at the mercy of marketing to a large extent. To use crews most efficiently (and pulling numbers out of thin air), this bid might have 100 737 lines in CLT and 200 in PHL. Then the next bid might have 150 in CLT and 150 in PHL. Only to be changed again on the following bid. So trying to maintain some stability (given parking airplanes, attrition, etc) saves on training. Of course, the key is trying to balance all that.

Finally, there is a formula they use to come up with the # of lines - or at least a rough guide. Then the fudge factors above come in.

Jim

 

[justaumechanic]

So let me get this straight.

If no pilots leave the company by the close of the bid then 81 pilots will loose their jobs. Would that be correct?

So basically the comment by USA320 that no pilot job losses would occur with the loss of 737's, 757's and A319's is incorrect.

You are counting on the fact that some pilots will be leaving the company either thru the age 60 rule or early out. If none go then the bottom 81 are looking for work.

 

[markkus757]

If I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of pilots approaching the mandatory retirement age, does anybody know how many will hit this this year?

 

[BoeingBoy]

justaumechanic,

Well, not quite. The reduction of 81 available positions matches the known reduction in the number of pilots as of when the bid was put together. Something very unusual would have to happen for there to be furloughs.

If a couple hundred folks on medical disability all of a sudden got their FAA medical back and returning enmass, all bets are off. But barring something that extreme there shouldn't be any furloughs.

In fact, it's possible (maybe probable) that attrition between now and August from currently unknown early retirements/resignations will leave US still shorthanded for pilots.

Like I said somewhere in a post above, there have been a net of 81 pilots leave that weren't known about when the last bid closed in late March - well, correct that a little since they knew about the upcoming age 60 retirements in July, August, & September (all 21 of them).

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

If I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of pilots approaching the mandatory retirement age, does anybody know how many will hit this this year?

[post="270391"][/post]​

Looks like 46 minus the 21 on this new bid, or 25 more after this bid. The spike in early retirements at the end of last year took care of quite a few. This is active only, not out on medical or furlough.

Jim

 

[UALDC767]

While I don't get involved in the process of coming up with those numbers, what we generally see is a shift of "extra" staffing to lower paying positions. Hence the addition of F/O reserve slots, especially on the narrow-bodies. Since we're especially short-staffed in certain positions on certain airplanes, you see some of the "extra" going to C/O reserve or certain bases.

There is some attempt to keep time from swinging back & forth between bases wiley-niley. To be fair, the folks that put the bids together are at the mercy of marketing to a large extent. To use crews most efficiently (and pulling numbers out of thin air), this bid might have 100 737 lines in CLT and 200 in PHL. Then the next bid might have 150 in CLT and 150 in PHL. Only to be changed again on the following bid. So trying to maintain some stability (given parking airplanes, attrition, etc) saves on training. Of course, the key is trying to balance all that.

Finally, there is a formula they use to come up with the # of lines - or at least a rough guide. Then the fudge factors above come in.

Jim

[post="270305"][/post]​

That part I understand.....marketing runs/ruins our lives here at UAL as well.

I believe all of our staffing is based off of Captains....so many Captains= so many First Officers. Then there are the percentages of the lineholders ~11-14% to get reserves....plus vacations, long term sicklist....etc....to get the total number of pilots needed. Certainly seasonal fluctuations/marketing adjustments mess with the levels. So do you base pilots levels at the peak or valleys of requirements? Tough question to answer. United has tried to staff based on the valleys.

The company based last summers staffing on an overly optimistic model ("since you took paycuts, we figured You WOULD WANT to fly 95 hrs/mo to make up for it"----Ummm no!) and it bit them in the butt bigtime. When reserves are maxed out in hours with over a week to go in the month, something is wrong. With the reduction in flying this year and the recalls (some 50 were advanced from fall into spring) it will be interesting to see if history repeats itself or if we are going to ok regarding staffing.

DC