Charlotte to Madrid & Dublin May 2011 - CLT Expansion

[strangiatotheme]

It cannot be flown by an east crew in a west 757. Has nothing to do with configuration. It has all to do with the Transition Agreement.

I think they meant west crew in a west 757. Doesn't the TA allow for the west to operate one TATL flight? I don't believe that would ever happen though as the west 757s are equipped with domestic First seats.

 

[john john]

I don't believe that would ever happen though as the west 757s are equipped with domestic First seats.

That wouldn’t matter with this bunch

 

[Hope777]

It cannot be flown by an east crew in a west 757. Has nothing to do with configuration. It has all to do with the Transition Agreement.

I Did mean A West Crew with a West Aircraft. As the TA allowed for ONE East Flight from PHX-HAWAII it also allowed a TA Flight by the West.

 

[CLTRob]

How many of the B752's are ETOPS?

 

[InternationalDan]

How many of the B752's are ETOPS?

All of the B757's I have seen in CLT are ETOPs, I dont think they have anyother 757's that are still here....

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think they meant west crew in a west 757. Doesn't the TA allow for the west to operate one TATL flight?

Actually, one flight that was operated or announced as of August 2005 (I think that's when the TA was signed). Any new routes since then can be flown by either side.

Jim

 

[strangiatotheme]

Actually, one flight that was operated or announced as of August 2005 (I think that's when the TA was signed). Any new routes since then can be flown by either side.

Jim

Ah, I forgot about that bit. Makes sense.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ah, I forgot about that bit. Makes sense.

I actually mis-stated the TA. West can fly two of the European routes operated or announced as of Aug 31, 2005 plus any new routes announced and added since then. It's the East that's limited to one Hawaiian route operated or announced as of Aug 31, 2005 - I think but wouldn't swear that all the Hawaiian routes had been announced at that point.

Jim

 

[strangiatotheme]

I actually mis-stated the TA. West can fly two of the European routes operated or announced as of Aug 31, 2005 plus any new routes announced and added since then. It's the East that's limited to one Hawaiian route operated or announced as of Aug 31, 2005 - I think but wouldn't swear that all the Hawaiian routes had been announced at that point.

Jim

As far as I know all four Hawaii routes out of Phoenix and LAS-OGG were announced in July 2005. So anything new outside of Europe is fair game for both sides, assuming they can operate the relevant aircraft per the TA?

 

[FutureUScapt]

I actually mis-stated the TA. West can fly two of the European routes operated or announced as of Aug 31, 2005 plus any new routes announced and added since then. It's the East that's limited to one Hawaiian route operated or announced as of Aug 31, 2005 - I think but wouldn't swear that all the Hawaiian routes had been announced at that point.

Jim

As far as I know all four Hawaii routes out of Phoenix and LAS-OGG were announced in July 2005. So anything new outside of Europe is fair game for both sides, assuming they can operate the relevant aircraft per the TA?

Hmm, well something is amiss here because based on this wording it sounds like it would not be possible for US-east to operate a PHX-HNL flight, and US-east is currently flying one of the two frequencies on that route.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So anything new outside of Europe is fair game for both sides, assuming they can operate the relevant aircraft per the TA?

That's the sticking point - the West can operate more TA routes (at least in the summer) than they can TA aircraft since the 767's and A333's can only be operated by the East. Three 757's that the East is operating can be flown by the West also. Meanwhile, East is operating the one Hawaiian route that the TA allows, although the term "route" opens up the possibility that the East could operate the 2nd PHX-HNL flight also.

Jim

 

[strangiatotheme]

Hmm, well something is amiss here because based on this wording it sounds like it would not be possible for US-east to operate a PHX-HNL flight, and US-east is currently flying one of the two frequencies on that route.

No I think everything is correct, the East is operating their one allowable frequency on a Hawaii route that was announced before August 31, 2005.

 

[BoeingBoy]

the East is operating their one allowable frequency on a Hawaii route that was announced before August 31, 2005.

What's interesting is the specific word in the TA - "route" and not "frequency". So within the limits set by the TA, one side or the other could operate multiple frequencies on each allowed "route", at least by the language. The intent of that negotiated language may be different however.

Jim

 

[FutureUScapt]

No I think everything is correct, the East is operating their one allowable frequency on a Hawaii route that was announced before August 31, 2005.

Whoops, you are indeed correct. I initially read that as saying that the East could not operate any route announced before August 31, 2005 for some reason. My mistake.

 

[Travelpro72]

Regardless of what is in the transition agreement I cannot see the company paying to put all west f/a's through Envoy training for one flight. It's Tempe we're talking about here. Think about it. You have a base of International, Envoy trained f/a's but your going to overnight west f/a's before sending them the next day to Europe then overnight again in CLT upon their return? Not gonna happen.