Charlotte to Madrid & Dublin May 2011 - CLT Expansion

[strangiatotheme]

What's interesting is the specific word in the TA - "route" and not "frequency". So within the limits set by the TA, one side or the other could operate multiple frequencies on each allowed "route", at least by the language. The intent of that negotiated language may be different however.

Jim

That's an interesting point. I've seen a document for the flight attendants which utilizes the term "daily round trips" which makes it pretty clear. There's a note that says this provision came from the pilot's agreement, but it seems like there's a discrepancy with the language there.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Regardless of what is in the transition agreement I cannot see the company paying to put all west f/a's through Envoy training for one flight. It's Tempe we're talking about here. Think about it. You have a base of International, Envoy trained f/a's but your going to overnight west f/a's before sending them the next day to Europe then overnight again in CLT upon their return? Not gonna happen.

Come on. You know this place. They will simply eliminate Envoy training and throw them into the Envoy "briar patch" hoping that they will somehow figure it all out before the airplane lands.

Or, expect the Envoy-trained F/As on the crew to do the "training" enroute (for free, or course.)

 

[PHLfa88]

So with the East Flying a B757 PHX-HNL, maybe just maybe it will be flown with a West B757 ? I do know that the East and West B757's are Config'd differently, but do you think they may throw the West Pilot Group a Bone ?

The reason the East is flying HNL is because the West do not have enough ETOPS A/C..Remember one was sent back!

 

[N903AW]

Think about it. You have a base of International, Envoy trained f/a's but your going to overnight west f/a's before sending them the next day to Europe then overnight again in CLT upon their return? Not gonna happen.

I am not holding my breath that any of these routes will be flown by West crews. You're right, not gonna happen. That being said, remember when CLT-CDG was started up? Philadelphia crews DH to CLT, long overnight, work to Paris, long overnight, back to CLT, long overnight, DH to PHL. All the while there were International, Envoy trained CLT crews perfectly capable of flying this themselves.

Never underestimate "stupid" when it comes to how this place is run. LOL!

 

[hp-csr-phx]

What is the pairing on the PHX HNL East flight? Seems like they would have to do CLT or PHL to PHX overnight, HNL, long overnight, back to PHX overnight, then home.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What is the pairing on the PHX HNL East flight? Seems like they would have to do CLT or PHL to PHX overnight, HNL, long overnight, back to PHX overnight, then home.

I haven't looked up the pairing, but assume it's a CLT pairing since it's a direct flight that originates in CLT, stops in PHX, then on to HNL. The difference between this and using West crews to do Europe is there's no deadhead on the CLT-PHX-HNL and return. Personal guess - US won't use West crews for any of the Europe flights until after the FA's have a new contract (whenever that might be) and may not even then. But unlike the FA's transition agreement, the pilots TA doesn't forbid having West pilot bases in CLT, PHL, or wherever in the east. The East pilot TA also doesn't forbid flying with West FA's or a mixed FA crew.

However, just because they can do something doesn't mean they will do it. but it is one of the potential sticks that the company may have in the future if it wants to herd USAPA or the East pilots in a certain direction.

Jim

 

[cynic]

I haven't looked up the pairing, but assume it's a CLT pairing since it's a direct flight that originates in CLT, stops in PHX, then on to HNL. The difference between this and using West crews to do Europe is there's no deadhead on the CLT-PHX-HNL and return. Personal guess - US won't use West crews for any of the Europe flights until after the FA's have a new contract (whenever that might be) and may not even then. But unlike the FA's transition agreement, the pilots TA doesn't forbid having West pilot bases in CLT, PHL, or wherever in the east. The East pilot TA also doesn't forbid flying with West FA's or a mixed FA crew.

However, just because they can do something doesn't mean they will do it. but it is one of the potential sticks that the company may have in the future if it wants to herd USAPA or the East pilots in a certain direction.

Jim

In theory, wouldn't the proposed new FAA duty regs allow an augmented crew to do PHX to CLT to DUB or something similar? Obviously coming back home would be more problematic. I don't see it happening any time soon, but eventually you will see larger aircraft on the PHX to hub routes. That will make it easier to have a PHX crew doing T/A flying.

 

[BoeingBoy]

That will make it easier to have a PHX crew doing T/A flying.

I'd have to look at the proposal in more detail. There's so much of the advisory panel recommended, the European rules say, here's what we're proposing that I'm not sure of the exact rules for an augmented crew. I also assume that if they could use an augmented crew to do it, it would have to be augmented our of and into PHX too. Plus the whole question of intent - do the augmented duty time/rest proposals apply to a multi-leg flight or just for a single-leg flight long flight? If multi-legged they could possibly be used for domestic with no trans-Atlantic/S America/Pacific legs. Doint three or four transcons in a single duty period anyone?

Jim

 

[BuffaloJoe]

PHL-HNL to be started March 12, 2011, from a source I can't say.

 

[A320 Driver]

Not worth all the chatter. Decision made... East crews will do the flying to DUB and MAD.


Driver B)

 

[psw737]

PHL-HNL to be started March 12, 2011, from a source I can't say.

Any idea what a/c to be used? I always thought this would do well, haven't checked in a while but the only airline in the northeast with a nonstop is Continental. Not sure if delta or american have since started a jfk flight.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Looks like CO still has the only non-stop although UA now codeshares on that flight.

Given the problems they had with the 767 on CLT-HNL and with PHL-HNL being ~250 miles further, they should use an A330 barring procurement of longer range 767's. That doesn't mean they will do either, and may try it with the current 767's.

Jim

 

[strangiatotheme]

I guess that's what the "lesser long-haul development in PHL" post on Twitter was all about.

 

[zethya]

Looks like CO still has the only non-stop although UA now codeshares on that flight.

Given the problems they had with the 767 on CLT-HNL and with PHL-HNL being ~250 miles further, they should use an A330 barring procurement of longer range 767's. That doesn't mean they will do either, and may try it with the current 767's.

Jim

The US 767 will likely never make it Westbound. One hold over the NE corridor, or a long PHL takeoff queue and a PHX stop is ensured. The US A330-300 would likely do no better. If they seriously want to compete with the EWR CO flight, it has to be with the 332. Unfortunately, that would require sacrificing a European high yielding PHL 332 O&D route (LHR, TLV) or the CDG route from PHL or CLT. IMO, US cannot afford another smack for really poor route planning - ala CLT-HNL. US has always had the opportunity to upgrade its existing 767-200s to a higher MTOW by paying $ to Boeing. I undestand they looked at the option a few years ago and for whatever reason ($$), didn't do it. The 330s unfortunately cannot be upgraded to more hours (range) unless they replace the engines. Really, I don't understand how they can continue to produce acceptable profit margins with a no growth plan for the next 3 years. IMO, the move out of the 332 deliveries to 2013 has a merger/acquisition plan behind it. I wouldn't even be surprised if the no growth international route actions at PHL and the buildup at CLT is being done for the same reason. I know some will say the CLT buildup is no different than DL had at CVG or CO at CLE as connection releivers for their primary internatonal hubs, but I suspect there is a different near term strategic plan at US.

 

[psw737]

The US 767 will likely never make it Westbound. One hold over the NE corridor, or a long PHL takeoff queue and a PHX stop is ensured. The US A330-300 would likely do no better. If they seriously want to compete with the EWR CO flight, it has to be with the 332. Unfortunately, that would require sacrificing a European high yielding PHL 332 O&D route (LHR, TLV) or the CDG route from PHL or CLT. IMO, US cannot afford another smack for really poor route planning - ala CLT-HNL. US has always had the opportunity to upgrade its existing 767-200s to a higher MTOW by paying $ to Boeing. I undestand they looked at the option a few years ago and for whatever reason ($$), didn't do it. The 330s unfortunately cannot be upgraded to more hours (range) unless they replace the engines. Really, I don't understand how they can continue to produce acceptable profit margins with a no growth plan for the next 3 years. IMO, the move out of the 332 deliveries to 2013 has a merger/acquisition plan behind it. I wouldn't even be surprised if the no growth international route actions at PHL and the buildup at CLT is being done for the same reason. I know some will say the CLT buildup is no different than DL had at CVG or CO at CLE as connection releivers for their primary internatonal hubs, but I suspect there is a different near term strategic plan at US.

I just heard the other day that we may be getting two 332's in a jan/march time frame, i guess we will see.