Glenn Quagmire
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Chicago Teachers Want a 30% Pay Increase Over Next 2 Years!
- Thread starter southwind
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- are unions insane ?
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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The big difference between public and private sector...
In the private sector, the CEO and unions aren't hand picking the board. The shareholders are. They elect a board who governs and ultimately decide how much of the company's resources are going to be for employee wages and benefits. That gets passed along to management to execute and implement.
When a shareholder disagrees with what the board is doing, they can sell their stock, and end the relationship.
In the public sector, unions work very hard at making sure their candidates are elected, knowing that they will be repaying the favor when it comes time to determining how much of the federal/state/county/city resources are going to be set aside for employee wages & benefits.
In the public sector, those negotiating with the unions know that they're going to need their support during the next election cycle, therefore there's an automatic conflict of interest in the transaction.
When a taxpayer disagrees with the direction their elected officials have engaged in, they have the ability to try and change that representation; failing that, they have to move. That's by no means as simple of a proposition as it is to sell stock... If it were, the People's Republic of Illinois would probably already be abandoned outside of those in the public sector or on some form of welfare...
Ms Tree
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Is there a guarantee that there will be a private school that will accept their chill and that the voucher will cover the entire cost with out any out of pocket?
SparrowHawk
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Life holds no guarantees. The price of Liberty is risk. Ever think that if everything wasn't "Guaranteed" by some cradle to grave social program that people would alter their lifestyle decisions? Maybe not pump out Babies and live a clean & sober life etc etc?
OP
southwind
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Your a freakin' lunatic Barry-O ! Or are you so politically correct you have to look out your ass to see the sunshine !
I have have black friends, I work with and have more than once mentioned the term "Lil Childen" and if they don't have a problem with it , what makes you think I going to listen to some Yankee, panty-waist, drool-driveling, cradle to grave endorser whine about it ! Now..............go out and get a life...will you !
Who says it has to be "Private Schools"? Have public schools compete for those vouchers and I guarantee you'll see test scores sore !
Bringing this topic BACK to it's original intent, can someone answer a very simple question as it pertains to ' contracts '...... lets say Teacher contracts.
Ready ???
Here goes;
If I (and the bank) sign a 15/20/30 year Loan contract for a home with a BANK, if down the road, I decide that for reasons such as......I can no longer AFFORD the monthly payment, do I have the legal right to abrogate said contract, and pay ONLY what I can afford ?
If the bank objects, do they have legal standing because I'm not living up to my obligation/responsibility because of documents with my signature on them ?
If municipalities, one day decide that they, WITHOUT RAISING TAXES, cannot AFFORD to HONOR legal contracts that they signed with the town Police/Fire Fighters/Teacher UNIONS have legal standing to ABROGATE said contracts ?
And if the town does illegally abrogate the union contracts, do the cops/FFers/teachers have legal standing to WITHOLD thier services ?
After the Walker recall victory, I'm hearing a LOT of talk radio bragging about how " We have showed those COP-FFers-Teachers-Municipal employees UNIONS" (Garbage men/snow plow drivers etc.)
If a national "groundswell" support for Muni-Unions takes hold, I then say......" Be CAREFUL for what you wish for " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ready ???
Here goes;
If I (and the bank) sign a 15/20/30 year Loan contract for a home with a BANK, if down the road, I decide that for reasons such as......I can no longer AFFORD the monthly payment, do I have the legal right to abrogate said contract, and pay ONLY what I can afford ?
If the bank objects, do they have legal standing because I'm not living up to my obligation/responsibility because of documents with my signature on them ?
If municipalities, one day decide that they, WITHOUT RAISING TAXES, cannot AFFORD to HONOR legal contracts that they signed with the town Police/Fire Fighters/Teacher UNIONS have legal standing to ABROGATE said contracts ?
And if the town does illegally abrogate the union contracts, do the cops/FFers/teachers have legal standing to WITHOLD thier services ?
After the Walker recall victory, I'm hearing a LOT of talk radio bragging about how " We have showed those COP-FFers-Teachers-Municipal employees UNIONS" (Garbage men/snow plow drivers etc.)
If a national "groundswell" support for Muni-Unions takes hold, I then say......" Be CAREFUL for what you wish for " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eolesen
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Bears.... not sure where you've been for the past three years, but with regard to your first question... Absolutely. That's what the whole loan modification program championed by no other than the Chocolate Jesus was all about -- under Obama's program, mortgage servicers were required to reduce monthly payments to no more than 38 percent of the borrower's gross monthly income, and the Feds subsidized the rest so that the monthly payment was no more than 31 percent of the borrower's monthly income. Not a bad deal for those who qualified, but the downside to that program is that it didn't eliminate principal. It just deferred payments.
Now there's a program out by which FHA is working to reduce principal payments... That's a permanent fix to the issue of underwater property.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/06/fha_announcement.html
Outside those programs, there's nothing else mainstream that would help someone stay in a house they can't afford. Short sales have existed for decades to help someone get out of an underwater loan, but you have to work closely with the mortgage servicer to sell your house for as much as you can. They verify the market comps, and typically write off the difference between the purchase price and what you owe. They even pay realtors a full commission in most cases. The mortgage holders far prefer that to a foreclosure, since the property remains occupied and (in theory) maintained. In most cases, the loss is written off with no obligation to the debtor. In some cases, the difference remains an outstanding debt.
I suspect over the next 10 years, you're going to see county and municipal workers screwed as towns and even entire counties go bankrupt.
As for a nationwide groundswell of support for the unions... Are you nucking futts?
Maybe out east you might see it, but I'd say that the nation's patience for the SEIU and AFSCME is at an all time low...
I've read that >65% of the nation's fire departments is still covered by volunteer fire departments, including large parts of the area where I live. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if the remainder went out on a nationwide strike. The 65% of us in flyover country presumably figured out it's just as efficient to do it the old fashioned way -- trained volunteers looking out for their neighbors... Paramedic services are already outsourced to private industry, and if we had to go to deputized private citizens for law enforcement, so be it.
If liberals in the socialist states and cities were left to fend for yourselves, instead of relying on good union folk to do it for you, I suspect you'd learn to better appreciate the second amendment...
SparrowHawk
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I don't know it test scores will sore or soar. One thing that will occur is the cost of mediocrity will decline steeply. Whether we get better scores depends largely upon the number of 2 parent households as it has been shown to be the ONE thing regardless of all others to deliver better scores..
Ms Tree
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Providing an education to all citizens who are capable is a benefit to all of us. The idea that only those who can afford and education should get one is something I find to be.ignorant and short sighted.
If someone want to sendz their kid to a private school they may do so.with out the use of my tax dollars. I am not in favor of subsidizing religious schools or.schools for the wealthy.
OP
southwind
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Proof of your lunacy is right here Barry-O, as you personally call me out, demanding a reply to which I respond, then you forget exactly what your talking about by stating in your next post, "Bringing this topic BACK to it's original intent" !
Dude, your losin' it and need to spend more time playing your flute !
" WHYYYY............... some of MY best ....FRIENDS..... are....B L A C K " !!!
EEEYOOWW,
Talk about the sound of fingernails dragged slowly across a chalkboard !!!!!
Y S M-F ! !
PS,
southwind,.............keep that......... 'DAILY GRIND'........ goin' will ya !
The FEDS need you to do it...to pay ME that ....3.6% ......C.O.L.A I just got in my monthly SS Check !!!!!!!
HEY southwind,
Do Ya' like baseball ??
I noticed my NEW YORK YANKEES......' Marched ' into ATLANTA tonite (Like Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman) and F..KED UP the ATL Braves.. 3-0 !
" Oh I wish I was in the land of COTTON,......Ol' times there are not forgotten,.....LOOK AWAY-Look Away-look away....DIXIE LAND " !!! : ) : ) : )
Do Ya' like baseball ??
I noticed my NEW YORK YANKEES......' Marched ' into ATLANTA tonite (Like Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman) and F..KED UP the ATL Braves.. 3-0 !
" Oh I wish I was in the land of COTTON,......Ol' times there are not forgotten,.....LOOK AWAY-Look Away-look away....DIXIE LAND " !!! : ) : ) : )
SparrowHawk
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First off there is no such thing as a "Private School" all are controlled by Government. The government sets the accredation standards so therefore a so called "Private School" is a myth.
Now let's address the issue of education for all. I can easily support a true free market education system that is funded solely by state and local government. NO FEDERAL INVOLVEMENT of any kind. Close the entire Department of Education and divide the money saved and send it back to the states on a per pupil basis. Second, local school boards decide what is taught. If states wish to use vouchers to allow for a measure of competition? Fine by me. If a faith based school is involved they teach what they want and vouchers can be used.
The closer we get to a pure free market the cheaper and better the education will get. Throwing money hasn't and won't work. The one sure fire way to superior performance is parental involvement and anything like a voucher system that forces parents to be involved will result in parents and students who are driven to learn and teachers who love to teach.
We have a rising level of mediocrity because that's what government and money do, they raise the cost without delivering on their promises.
