Children in Envoy Class

[Travelpro72]

Well on Amtrak (the other form of PUBLIC transportation) the f/c car is designated a quiet car. NO use of portable electronics unless they are silent including laptops. NO cell phones at all during the trip. Also the conductor came up to the mother with her well behaved child and made the amtrak policy known about children. The conductor told her that if they child would happen to make noise during the trip he/she would be asked to relocate to the snack car. Now that was on a $62.00 f/c seat I purchased between PHL and PIT. THAT is the way it should be.

 

[ClueByFour]

There was never a policy of "banning" infants from Envoy or First Class, except for non-rev's. I don't believe you can just "ban" anyone from purchasing a ticket or an upgrade. You would be accused of discrimination.

An airline can "Ban" anyone it wants to at any time. See Jeffery Gitomer.

For that matter, for all practical purposes the Captain can do what he wants, anyway.

I'm all for keeping kids out of Envoy and long FC flights. Sleep is good.

 

[JS]

How idiotic. US is not going to throw away $800 just because the upgraders have kids with them. US knows very well that the people who complain about kids up front are not going to fly another carrier.

Actually, if you want to use the argument that it's easier to sleep without screaming babies nearby, then shouldn't an airline ban kids from economy class? It is much easier to fall asleep in First Class than in coach, plus there are fewer people within a given distance of the baby in First than in Coach. It would be a win-win!

 

[N965VJ]

Didn't the Envoy flight attendants do anything to try and resolve this? If not, why are they there?

Excuse me, sir, the passenger sitting next to you told me to tell you to stop doing that.

Wow, I know most frequent travellers hate children with a passion but didn't know that airline employees felt the same way.

Just the ones that emit noise and smells.

Well on Amtrak (the other form of PUBLIC transportation) the f/c car is designated a quiet car.

I’ve always wanted to take Amtrak across the country. I think I’ve contributed to the subsidy enough to qualify for at least one free New York to LA ticket. I’ve taken trips by train in Europe and it’s always been a great experience.

For that matter, for all practical purposes the Captain can do what he wants, anyway.

And then answer to the Chief Pilots Office.

 

[AtlanticBeach]

Interesting discussion to this point. One area that has not been mentioned regards parents who can afford to purchase tickets in C or to buy upgrades.

Many of these individuals have disposable income because they work many more hours than they spend with their children. They are not primary caregivers and are unable to manage relatively simple situations with their offspring.

As mentioned earlier, its' usually a parenting issue.

 

[US1YFARE]

The conductor told her that if they child would happen to make noise during the trip he/she would be asked to relocate to the snack car.

Yes, but a quiet car on Amtrak is much different than FC or Envoy. What about the people who speak loudly--is anyone going over them to them? What about the people who grab onto my seat and pull it back so far that it feels like I am in a bed temporarily. Saying anything to them? How about the people who talk on their cellphone so loudly it disturbs everyone on the plane? What about the farters? What about the burpers? What about the people who take off their shoes? Are you saying anything to them too? No, but people do not hesitate to jump on parents, particularly normal parents, who are nervous as it is that their children will be out of sorts and misbehave.

I think it is very rude for pax and FA's to make faces and whisper when they see kids get on a plane BEFORE the kids or the parents do anything wrong...and honestly, it is usually the parent's fault so don't take it out on the kids. The same people who roll their eyes at kids are the same ones where I could probably say when I board, you look like you could be lazy, I hope you don't do sudukos the entire flight. Or, you look like you don't know proper manners and I wanted you to know that I'm keeping an eye on you.

 

[JS]

I agree completely except for one thing:

Yes, but a quiet car on Amtrak is much different than FC or Envoy. What about the people who speak loudly--is anyone going over them to them? What about the people who grab onto my seat and pull it back so far that it feels like I am in a bed temporarily. Saying anything to them? How about the people who talk on their cellphone so loudly it disturbs everyone on the plane? What about the farters? What about the burpers? What about the people who take off their shoes? Are you saying anything to them too? No, but people do not hesitate to jump on parents, particularly normal parents, who are nervous as it is that their children will be out of sorts and misbehave.

I think it is very rude for pax and FA's to make faces and whisper when they see kids get on a plane BEFORE the kids or the parents do anything wrong...and honestly, it is usually the parent's fault so don't take it out on the kids. The same people who roll their eyes at kids are the same ones where I could probably say when I board, you look like you could be lazy, I hope you don't do sudukos the entire flight. Or, you look like you don't know proper manners and I wanted you to know that I'm keeping an eye on you.

Huh? Taking off my shoes is the first thing I do once it's clear we're not going to crash after take-off.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

I agree completely except for one thing:
Huh? Taking off my shoes is the first thing I do once it's clear we're not going to crash after take-off.

You wouldn't do that if you knew what was in and/or on the carpet.

 

[Seatacus]

You wouldn't do that if you knew what was in and/or on the carpet.

Good point........maybe we should issue a hazmat suit to all who board.

 

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

Taken from the text of a transcript of the CNN show "The Business Traveller", hosted by Richard Quest...

QUEST: Coming up after the break, even the most family-friendly business travelers want some peace and quiet, the time when they want to be left alone. So should babies be allowed to fly in business class?

QUEST: Picture it. You thought you had a 10 hour flight ahead, a chance to finish that presentation or even rest. And then, you see it, the baby -- or even worse, toddler -- who is determined to ruin your journey.

And as the child starts to wail, so do you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST (on camera): Babies in business class. If there's one issue that will really get the bigger babies -- us regular business travelers -- up in arms about, this is it, as I discovered when I wrote an article for the BUSINESS TRAVELLER Web site.

A hornet's nest was opened. You left me in no doubt as to your views.

(voice-over): "Why should we pay the extra if a baby is screaming for the whole flight? Do not be misguided enough to think we pay the extra money for the sake of the food."

Brad Paton, from Paris, suggested, "If you expect to be treated like the royalty of the 18th century, then you should find a private means of transport."

(on camera): What's fascinating about this subject is that everybody has a view, and some are more extreme than others.

VICTORIA MATHER, TRAVEL EDITOR: I hate babies. I hate them in business class. They are revolting, repulsive and unnecessary and you don't want them there.

NICK PERRY, "BUSINESS TRAVELLER" MAGAZINE: You've got to acknowledge the fact that a baby or a child as got just as much right to be in business class as you do. That doesn't stop your heart sinking ever-so-slightly as you walk into business class, which you think is this exclusive zone, and you've got some little person sitting next to you. But there's nothing you can do about it.

QUEST: All right, so baby Jacob and baby Nicholas have as much right to sit in business class as I do. Their parents can afford the ticket.

But what about if I want to do some work? With all this noise?

ANN LONGFIELD, CEO, KID'S CLUB NETWORK: More often than not, it is adults who are making more noise, and I think we can all live with a baby making a little bit of noise now and again.

MATHER: I've got to be up and running at the end of this. That's what I paid business rates for, for business. Children are not on business. They're just on the business of wrecking everybody else's business.

QUEST: So, when they're intent on destroying my work time, and more importantly my sleep, who's going to come to my rescue?

PERRY: The best thing to do is handle it through the crew. If you go to the parents directly, then you're implying that they don't know how to handle their own children, which is only going to exacerbate the situation.

MATHER: For parents to have paid that sort of price is entirely selfish. And what they should do is pay the price for a nanny to come and for a nanny to sit in back with their children.

They've only got legs that long, haven't they? What are they concerned about leg space for? Give us a break.

 

[JS]

You wouldn't do that if you knew what was in and/or on the carpet.

Underneath the seat in front of me? With socks on? Methinks our world is not quite that dangerous.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

Underneath the seat in front of me? With socks on? Methinks our world is not quite that dangerous.

Didn't mean to imply that it was dangerous. But obviously, you've never seen the carpet and underneath the seats from a close view. Guess it depends on your level of "ick."

 

[TheWatcher]

How would everyone feel if a 2 year old had accompanied their parents on 50 segments in coach and became a premium traveler and then used their status to upgrade?

I would feel sorry for the kid. What the hell sort of parents would participate in that sort of madness?
Frequent flier here, granted most of it say 90% is INTL, which would in my book be unimaginable with a 2yr old on 50 legs or even 1 for that matter. Domestic or intl, 50 legs is too much for a small child no matter if the kid is in first or economy. I dont see that happening.

 

[flygirl74]

In coach(on A330)parents with infants are seated at the first row bulkhead. Bassinets can be fastened to the bulkhead to accommodate the infant. So, if the crying baby isn't next to you, he/she is surely right behind you.

 

[luvn737s]

I agree completely except for one thing:
Huh? Taking off my shoes is the first thing I do once it's clear we're not going to crash after take-off.

Where do you work? I'd like to come over and slip off my ripe old Red Wings. They're nothin' compared to the tube socks labeled "May", and baby, they're comin' off too. Gotta let them dogs breath!

Entitlement and class seem inversely proportional to me.