Company says it will not entertain parity

[767jetz]

USA320Pilot asks: I beleive pilots should support other pilots in their attempt to obtain a pay raise. It appears from your post you do not support the East pilots effort to obtain pay parity. Is that true?

OMG! Would the true HYPOCRITE please stand up!!!

I really don't need to go to great lengths here since several others have already covered the blatant double standards you support.

The West does support ALL pilots in their attempt to get a pay raise through the JNC! What you are proposing once again is something that benefits just yourself instead of EVERYONE.

From one side of your mouth you say you will not support the West's section 6 or their right to seek self help. You go so far as to admit that you would be a scab! preventing them from obtaining a pay raise. From the other side of your mouth you chastise the West for their lack of support for your personal and selfish gain.

It is your consistently self-centered agenda that has gotten the East in this situation in the first place. When will you find the integrity to claim ownership for your problems? :huh:

As for the company not agreeing to pay parity...o.k., they have that right and the East pilots have the right to not grant Q-400 scope relief

How could you be so wrong. (AGAIN!)

 

[A320 Driver]

OMG! Would the true HYPOCRITE please stand up!!!

I really don't need to go to great lengths here since several others have already covered the blatant double standards you support.

The West does support ALL pilots in their attempt to get a pay raise through the JNC! What you are proposing once again is something that benefits just yourself instead of EVERYONE.

From one side of your mouth you say you will not support the West's section 6 or their right to seek self help. You go so far as to admit that you would be a scab! preventing them from obtaining a pay raise. From the other side of your mouth you chastise the West for their lack of support for your personal and selfish gain.

It is your consistently self-centered agenda that has gotten the East in this situation in the first place. When will you find the integrity to claim ownership for your problems? :huh:
How could you be so wrong. (AGAIN!)

East and West have separate operations and contracts. So what you are saying is that if the West were to seek self help, and the East guys didn't stop flying THEIR schedules on the EAST operation under the EAST contract, that we are scabbing the West?

Very convenient.

A320 Driver B)

 

[BottomFeeder]

Nope the sickiets is USA320Pilot saying he and other pilots would be a scab and cross a west picket line.

700UW,

Would that be the same as the IAM crossing the picket line at NWA and then working the struck work?

Are you saying the IAM is a scab union? Since the IAM told their members to cross and work struck work?

Let US know

 

[700UW]

There is a big difference, AMFA was on strike not the IAM, the language was in the ramp CBA to perform those duties where there was no maintenance.

Lets see ALPA also crossed the picket line at NWA.

And I remember how glady you and your ALPO buddies crossed the IAM picket line in October of 1992 and performed struck work and cut a secret deal with US not to honor the picket line so all pilots who flights were cancelled got paid, especially since US parker all the DC-9s, MD-80s, F28s, F100s and 737-200s.

Memory problems?

 

[BottomFeeder]

There is a big difference, AMFA was on strike not the IAM, the language was in the ramp CBA to perform those duties where there was no maintenance.

Lets see ALPA also crossed the picket line at NWA.

And I remember how glady you and your ALPO buddies crossed the IAM picket line in October of 1992 and performed struck work and cut a secret deal with US not to honor the picket line so all pilots who flights were cancelled got paid, especially since US parker all the DC-9s, MD-80s, F28s, F100s and 737-200s.

Memory problems?

LavMan,

IAM performed struck work and you say it was OK.

Then you say the East pilots will be scabs doing the same thing the IAM just did.

So that make the IAM a scab union. Right?

Memory problems?

If my memory is so bad then how can I remember you as LAVMAN. Were you not lifetime banned from this forum as the LAVMAN? When were you reborn as 700UW?

 

[767jetz]

For days you guys have slammed AWA320 for the statements he made to start this thread, claiming he was off the reservation, had no credible info, is "drinking Koolaid," etc. etc.

A typical response by the East who attack anyone who dares to make statements that do not support the East pilot's view of the world...

"...while I get mine from the mec"....Just put the Koolaide down then...and safely back away

Are you a frickin joke or what? Your official source of information is the AWA MEC in regards to company info.

I can't find ANY information to back up your statement regarding parity. Since you are not "OFFICIAL", we'll have to wait and see if the company is really that stupid.
A320 Driver B)

AWA320's post to start this topic is "misrepresentation".

The Company has already offered the pilots what they believe is "parity" + 3%...

Progress on pay increase talks will be discussed in"closed" session by the MEC on July 12 & 13.

USA320Pilot

But in the end AWA320 was spot on and apparently his source was correct. As Junebug172 points out: "Scott Kirby, in CLT, made it known that the company would not entertain any sort of parity for the east." But not a word from the East choir acknowledging that they were wrong, and that the instant flaming of AWA320 was without merit.

I guess the facts will conveniently be forgotten again, the next time someone posts some information that contradicts the propaganda of the East. :down:

 

[767jetz]

East and West have separate operations and contracts. So what you are saying is that if the West were to seek self help, and the East guys didn't stop flying THEIR schedules on the EAST operation under the EAST contract, that we are scabbing the West?

Very convenient.

A320 Driver B)

No, that's not what I'm saying. Nice spin though! Well played.

If the East flies their original schedule and no more, it is not scabbing. But we all know that the whipsaw is in place. And IF AWA went on strike, and management shifts flying to the East, and then the East pilots fly their "new schedule," THEN they ARE scabbing. And that is not convenient. You might just say it is the "INCONVENIENT TRUTH."

When the NWA pilots went on strike last time, the UAL MEC (as well as the MEC's of other airlines) clearly went on the record with management that we would NOT fly any extra sections or additional flying that was put in place to absorb NWA operation. It was made VERY clear that we supported their right to strike, and any attempt to put additional lift into NWA territory would be considered struck work by ALPA and would not be touched. As a result NWA did not try to operate during the strike, and shut the airline operation down until the strike was resolved.

Your guys on the other hand are clearly stating the opposite. And by doing so management knows that they could preemptively shift flying to the East and it would be flown by East pilots as long as it is in "THEIR schedules on the EAST operation under the EAST contract." YES, that would fall under the definition of being a scab.

 

[BottomFeeder]

propaganda of the East. :down:

767jetz,

Thank You for confirming to all your views of the East.

 

[700UW]

Hey Bottom,

And do you think attacking me changes what you did?

Glad to see you totally ignored you and your fellow US ALPO pilots are scabs from 1992.

Difference is you will perform struck work of your fellow union pilots.

The IAM, ALPA and PFAA did not honor the AMFA picket line.

And the IAM Ramp Contract contains language at NWA for rampers to perform that work where maintenance does not, AMFA walked, the company imposed a new CBA on the AMTs and they lost the work.

 

[A320 Driver]

For days you guys have slammed AWA320 for the statements he made to start this thread, claiming he was off the reservation, had no credible info, is "drinking Koolaid," etc. etc.

A typical response by the East who attack anyone who dares to make statements that do not support the East pilot's view of the world...
But in the end AWA320 was spot on and apparently his source was correct. As Junebug172 points out: "Scott Kirby, in CLT, made it known that the company would not entertain any sort of parity for the east." But not a word from the East choir acknowledging that they were wrong, and that the instant flaming of AWA320 was without merit.

I guess the facts will conveniently be forgotten again, the next time someone posts some information that contradicts the propaganda of the East. :down:

At the time we didn't know that AWA320 was management. He was right.

A320 Driver B)

No, that's not what I'm saying. Nice spin though! Well played.

If the East flies their original schedule and no more, it is not scabbing. But we all know that the whipsaw is in place. And IF AWA went on strike, and management shifts flying to the East, and then the East pilots fly their "new schedule," THEN they ARE scabbing. And that is not convenient. You might just say it is the "INCONVENIENT TRUTH."

When the NWA pilots went on strike last time, the UAL MEC (as well as the MEC's of other airlines) clearly went on the record with management that we would NOT fly any extra sections or additional flying that was put in place to absorb NWA operation. It was made VERY clear that we supported their right to strike, and any attempt to put additional lift into NWA territory would be considered struck work by ALPA and would not be touched. As a result NWA did not try to operate during the strike, and shut the airline operation down until the strike was resolved.

Your guys on the other hand are clearly stating the opposite. And by doing so management knows that they could preemptively shift flying to the East and it would be flown by East pilots as long as it is in "THEIR schedules on the EAST operation under the EAST contract." YES, that would fall under the definition of being a scab.

I don't think anyone would be in favor of flying struck work. There is a lot of anger floating on the boards and honestly, when you're ticked, you had just a soon everyone else be ticked too. When it comes right down to it, few people would sell out to that degree. It's a big step.

A320 Driver B)

 

[oldcrow]

It was in USA Today Money section that the CEO of Whole Foods was a regular undisclosed poster on a forum in yahoo and may have violated SEC rules.

Which one of you is Parker or Kirby? :unsure:

 

[Junebug172]

USA320Pilot asks: I beleive pilots should support other pilots in their attempt to obtain a pay raise. It appears from your post you do not support the East pilots effort to obtain pay parity. Is that true?

Yes, its VERY true. I don't believe in you scumbags going around behind our backs. We do this together or we don't do it at all.

 

[767jetz]

At the time we didn't know that AWA320 was management. He was right.

A320 Driver B)
I don't think anyone would be in favor of flying struck work. There is a lot of anger floating on the boards and honestly, when you're ticked, you had just a soon everyone else be ticked too. When it comes right down to it, few people would sell out to that degree. It's a big step.

A320 Driver B)

Fair enough. Thanks for the honest post. I would hope that all the talk of crossing picket lines is just smoke, and that it wouldn't actually happen.

But even talking trash about it only helps to play into management's hand, because if they THINK it will happen, then they will preemptively move flying, and the damage to those exercising their right to strike will already have been done.

Plus, it is extremely self serving for one particular poster (not you, but another with 320 in their name) to one day claim not to support one group in their fight to raise their pay, only to come back the next and accuse the same group of not supporting his fight to raise his pay.

 

[EastUS]

Yes, its VERY true. I don't believe in you scumbags going around behind our backs. We do this together or we don't do it at all.

"you scumbags" and "We do this together"....Hmmmmmm

Have a nice day.

 

[A320 Driver]

Fair enough. Thanks for the honest post. I would hope that all the talk of crossing picket lines is just smoke, and that it wouldn't actually happen.

But even talking trash about it only helps to play into management's hand, because if they THINK it will happen, then they will preemptively move flying, and the damage to those exercising their right to strike will already have been done.

Plus, it is extremely self serving for one particular poster (not you, but another with 320 in their name) to one day claim not to support one group in their fight to raise their pay, only to come back the next and accuse the same group of not supporting his fight to raise his pay.

We have a catch 22 here. Most East pilots will not support a joint contract because they know that it comes along with the Nic award. The Nic award is the last in a long line of disappointments and for most is simply the last straw. They will do ANYTHING to deny it's be implemented...even living with LOA 93 forever. I cannot impress upon you the gravity of the situation. You cannot get the support to vote in a joint contract even if it's negotiated. We can argue about this forever and it will not get you a new contract. Frankly, your chances are better in Section 6 negotiations if money is what you seek.

As much as the East pilots want a raise, it pails in comparison to their living with the Nic award going forward. That is where we are and that is likely where we will stay. Two groups, each determined to have their way. Neither willing to compromise their positions. I know, I know, negotiations are over, we were bad, you won, but outside of that, there is NO fix to this disaster we are in. Personally, I can think of NO solution that could pass muster with the majority of either pilot group.

Red Book, Green Book.

A320 Driver B)