Company's Offer

[Bob Owens]

I had a acouple to many last night.

You must have been hanging out with the Neg Comm.

 

[Bagbelt]

I won't go on about getting another line of work, but it is an outrage that anyone would want to vote on this. If it get to a "vote," it will pass - always has always will. With no chart raises a fsc can look forward to making about $2 an hour more in 2010 than he was in 1989. The co. has never said times were good, waiting till "next time" is foolish.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ At this point, I'm wondering if this proposal information was intentionally leaked to gage membership reaction to it, or something similar?----- Well, from reading this thread, I believe they may have got their answer!!!! :down:

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

<_< ------ At this point, I'm wondering if this proposal information was intentionally leaked to gage membership reaction to it, or something similar?----- Well, from reading this thread, I believe they may have got their answer!!!! :down:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MCI,

C'MON.....you OLD DOG,........you been around here LONG enough to know, that AA does NOT need to "test the water",..................Because the "temperature" in TUL/MCI, and DFW ramp, is WELL KNOWN to the company.


And(MCI),......... your Reply to me.."might" be.......... ????????

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I would have to say it was the worst agreement for us all. As far as being unskilled, you couldn't do my job without training and the time you put into your training is why you do make a higher salary. Personally I didn't want to work 15 or more yrs on midnights so I made my choice. So just because I'm in the fleet world, I do not love it. The deal sucks. I can take it or leave it. It's not much money. An insult?? It's around $7,500 or so and no changes in our benefits and pensions. I know that means something to our retirees. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had wanted money back and that would have been an insult. It might make since to put in an option to open earlier if economics improve. Better to have a contract if this whole thing craps out. Just an opinion. Like I said if this is the best offer from the company and it's going to go on for months and months. I'd rather be able to vote on it myself and maybe battle again in a year and half from now. We would not be the big losers if this craps out anyway. It's not my job they are looking to rape. My rock is very comfortable thank you and DOT testing ?? You know how many AMT's that I know have lost their jobs due to drugs and alcohol. Don't put yourself on any pedestal my friend. We all can have that problem. I've been around for over 25yrs at this company and have friends in all tile groups. I respect all groups around the system.

twufleetman,

"Don't put yourself on any pedestal my friend."

There is no pedestal. Only the curtain of secrecy you hide behind. It is no coincidence that you and bigdawg are on this board when the proposal came out. I know you are incapable of thinking for yourself and will peddle what the int. wants. Just like they tried convincing negotiators into bringing this pig back for a vote.

The union should NOT be in charge of my retirement. The union SHOULD fight to raise my pay and benefits.

A lump sum? Now that is a joke. I lost around $120,000.00 over five years + and I will be given what? $3000.00?

Continue to post alongside bigdawg. We can all enjoy the laugh. Stay behind your alias so you can enjoy the secrecy.

 

[MCI transplant]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MCI,

C'MON.....you OLD DOG,........you been around here LONG enough to know, that AA does NOT need to "test the water",..................Because the "temperature" in TUL/MCI, and DFW ramp, is WELL KNOWN to the company.


And(MCI),......... your Reply to me.."might" be.......... ????????

<_< ----- I don't know Bears!-------- You may be right! I'm just wonnderig where this information came from! :unsure:

 

[captianamerica]

Wow, first post guys...Interesting reading.... Just have to say this is like deja vu all over again....Same song and dance, same offer, same "needs to be ratified by all 3 groups", yada yada yada ....Dennis said "back to the old contract then some". Think he needs a few more pajama parties..Are we going to do another AA/TWU phone vote while the company has there lawyers at the courthouse doors??? Wow, after the 45% tax on the bonus, lets not forget that...To me this latest offer is like scraps from the table...Just my opinion....

 

[TWU informer]

Quote of the Week....

Dennis Burchette:

"We believe that there is value in granting the company additional time to formulate a response to our proposal," Dennis Burchette, the union's international vice president, said in a letter to members posted online.

 

[captianamerica]

Union rejects American Airlines offer
Saturday May 17, 4:34 pm ET
By David Koenig, AP Business Writer
Ground workers union rejects American Airlines offer that called for lump-sum payments




http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080517/american_ai...labor.html?.v=3

 

[bigdawg52]

twufleetman,

"Don't put yourself on any pedestal my friend."

There is no pedestal. Only the curtain of secrecy you hide behind. It is no coincidence that you and bigdawg are on this board when the proposal came out. I know you are incapable of thinking for yourself and will peddle what the int. wants. Just like they tried convincing negotiators into bringing this pig back for a vote.

The union should NOT be in charge of my retirement. The union SHOULD fight to raise my pay and benefits.

A lump sum? Now that is a joke. I lost around $120,000.00 over five years + and I will be given what? $3000.00?

Continue to post alongside bigdawg. We can all enjoy the laugh. Stay behind your alias so you can enjoy the secrecy.

Why put us two together, he has his opinion I have mine, and you have yours. I am not saying you should agree with me, but we should agree with you. Because yours is the right way the only way.

Lets play a scenario: the company gives each twu member a five dollar an hour raise, with the condition that it out-sources all cities below fifteen departures a day, do you take this and vote yes, because you get your 2001 money back. Your at a station that has fourteen flights a day, so your let go to go to say DFW, ORD, LAX, and such.

Your wife and two kids do not want to be uprooted, so you decide to commute. Your five dollar an hour raise just went out the door. Because of the apt. you need to rent the food you would need to buy, the utilities, and such. And to think our fellow twu members you me and the rest of the layoffs who would displace, less senior employees.

So what do you gain, nothing nada zilch. But wth your strong stance, you would be the type of guy that said I WON, we showed them didn't we. Give me a break.... Go back under that pebble you came out of, because you are getting on my nerves. 🙄

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Why put us two together, he has his opinion I have mine, and you have yours. I am not saying you should agree with me, but we should agree with you. Because yours is the right way the only way.

Lets play a scenario: the company gives each twu member a five dollar an hour raise, with the condition that it out-sources all cities below fifteen departures a day, do you take this and vote yes, because you get your 2001 money back. Your at a station that has fourteen flights a day, so your let go to go to say DFW, ORD, LAX, and such.

Your wife and two kids do not want to be uprooted, so you decide to commute. Your five dollar an hour raise just went out the door. Because of the apt. you need to rent the food you would need to buy, the utilities, and such. And to think our fellow twu members you me and the rest of the layoffs who would displace, less senior employees.

So what do you gain, nothing nada zilch. But wth your strong stance, you would be the type of guy that said I WON, we showed them didn't we. Give me a break.... Go back under that pebble you came out of, because you are getting on my nerves. 🙄

Hey dawg,

If you want to talk directly to me identify yourself. It is very simple. I know you are on the neg. committee, if not in the int. State facts, not unlikely scenarios you devise that are calculated to "divide and conquer". Ramp has a contract let them vote on $#!t sandwhiches if they want. Not AMTs.

Tell me, after you step out from behind "bigdawg52", that the intl. reps. did not take members of the negotiating committee to the side, like thay always do, and try and get them to vote this POS for a membership vote. Are you BIG enough to do this simple thing? Unless you do, your opinion is that of the very same intl. reps. that WANT this to go for a vote.

If the intl. wants this POS to go for a vote, and all the neg. committee members that actually voted yes for it are nothing but SELLOUTS. Yes, SELLOUTS. I am sick and tired of the motto of, "We'll get'm next time!". Guess what? IT IS NEXT TIME!

So continue to do your master's bidding if that keeps your dream of entering the intl. appointed levels alive. But times have changed and I know you and the intl. know this. Not that oil is high, etc. But times have changed that the membership is fully awake, like a sleeping giant rising from a deep slumber. The twu has used it's bag of tricks and it is empty.

FULL RESTORATION OF PAY & BENEFITS PLUS ADJUSTEMENTS FOR INFLATION AND A RAISE. NOTHING ELSE GETS A YES VOTE!

 

[FWAAA]

AA "lost money"? Lets see, the have paid off over $10 billion in debt and have $5billion more in cash now than they did in 2003. Sounds to me like they had to take in at least $15billion more than they spent over the last 5 years for an averge of $3 billion a year.

That's because your expertise at corporate finance (or even correctly reading the financial statements) is just about as limited as my expertise at fixing airplanes.

AA hasn't paid off anywhere near $10 billion of debt since 2003. More like $3 billion. Further, AA's improved cash position includes the sale of new debt right after the concessions were signed plus the sale of over a billion dollars worth of new stock once the stock recovered. Add in more than a billion dollars of cash from asset sales (Orbitz, Hotwire, etc) and that's where the improved cash came from.

AMR's unrestricted cash is NOT $5 billion more than in 2003, it's about $3.3 billion more. At 3/31/08, AMR had about $4.5 billion of unrestricted cash, compared to the approx. $1.2 billion in April 2003.

Plus, you appear to have forgotten the difference between positive cash flow and net profits. AA has had positive cash flow from operations since the concessions yet has had only two years of annual net profits (2006 and 2007). The loss in the first quarter wiped out more than the 2006 net profit and the second quarter loss will likely wipe out the 2007 profit.

AA has used some of its cash flow to pay down some debt. But nowhere near $10 billion (who was the genius who made up that number?).

Besides, Ken in San Diego said that AA didn't lose money last quarter (without citing any sources or facts) - and you appear to be arguing with me. Without any facts. Here's the press release:

http://www.shareholder.com/aa/releaseDetai...eleaseID=304956

I realize that posting is a lot easier when all you do is make up numbers, but maybe your lack of success in negotiating with AA all these years has something to do with that laziness. Maybe if you and your colleagues actually came prepared with the facts instead of nonsense like you posted above, you might have had a greater measure of success. A common theme here is that it's always someone else's fault. Perhaps some introspection might be a wise investment.

And you were the Treasurer of your local until you were removed, right?

European Airlines, and airlines that operate in Europe have been paying $4 or more a gallon for years, they are still able to operate and provide their employees with livable wages. Its not unreasonable for us to expect the same.

No, just another falsehood. Fuel for road use has been heavily taxed in Europe forever. Jet Fuel has cost the same in Europe as it has in the USA. Which is about the same as it costs in Asia or Africa or S America. Not quite as funny as when NHBB kept on posting that there were gas stations in Ontario where gas was under a dollar a gallon (he didn't realize that it is priced in litres), but a good one nonetheless.

If jet fuel had cost $4/gal in Europe all these years, do you really believe that AA would have flown all those flights to London and the continent from JFK? If you look at the financials for BA or LH or AF, you'll find that they tend to pay almost exactly the same for jetA as AA. 10 years ago they paid a little more than $0.50, just like AA did and last year they paid over $2.00 just like AA did.

No, as far as going by them. The BLS statistics understate inflation thanks to the "value index" they started using a few years back, non-inclusion of medical costs and they dont include property taxes.

The BLS has political and economic reasons for understating inflation , politically its always better to show low inflation and since SSI is pegged to inflation it saves the government money by claiming that inflation is lower than it is.

No real argument from me. MCI said the CPI numbers I posted didn't include Fuel or Food. He was wrong.

I don't agree that the CPI accurately measures inflation any more than you do. But that's not the point of my response. If somebody's going to correct one of my posts, it would be nice if the corrector wasn't wrong (like MCI was). When I make a posting mistake, I usually own up to it. Fortunately, so does MCI.

 

[TWU informer]

I always wonder why the professional AMR bean counter is always on the threads related to labor and negotiations? ie FWAAA

Is this a paid service that AMR has hired out?

Probably another "consulting" type firm hired by Arpey to spend time on internet bulletin boards and blogs to insure the company arguements and placed before the eyes of disgruntled workers.

 

[Bagbelt]

Why put us two together, he has his opinion I have mine, and you have yours. I am not saying you should agree with me, but we should agree with you. Because yours is the right way the only way.

Lets play a scenario: the company gives each twu member a five dollar an hour raise, with the condition that it out-sources all cities below fifteen departures a day, do you take this and vote yes, because you get your 2001 money back. Your at a station that has fourteen flights a day, so your let go to go to say DFW, ORD, LAX, and such.

Your wife and two kids do not want to be uprooted, so you decide to commute. Your five dollar an hour raise just went out the door. Because of the apt. you need to rent the food you would need to buy, the utilities, and such. And to think our fellow twu members you me and the rest of the layoffs who would displace, less senior employees.

So what do you gain, nothing nada zilch. But wth your strong stance, you would be the type of guy that said I WON, we showed them didn't we. Give me a break.... Go back under that pebble you came out of, because you are getting on my nerves. 🙄

I would agree with you if this had been the first setback in a string of good contracts. But say you were hired in 95 as a junior clerk, $6 an hour untill whenever. Then in 2001 you finally started at $9 an hour on step 1 of the full clerk rate. Then you took a 20% cut in pay in 2003. Now you finally went A scale 2 years ago. Now no raise for 2 years, but hey at least you don't have to move?

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

I always wonder why the professional AMR bean counter is always on the threads related to labor and negotiations? ie FWAAA

Is this a paid service that AMR has hired out?

Probably another "consulting" type firm hired by Arpey to spend time on internet bulletin boards and blogs to insure the company arguements and placed before the eyes of disgruntled workers.

That is an unfair attack. I've "known" FWAAA for years over at FlyerTalk.com and he's an intelligent contributor to discussions both here and there. Don't result to name-calling because you aren't able to respond to his arguments.