Consequences Of Section 1113

[cavalier]

My 2 cents--

If ALPA has an agreement in place (which will likely have a requirement that all unions pony up before ALPA's part takes effect,) and the IAM refuses to play, then the pilots will likely walk across the backs of IAM members to get to work if they have to.

I think the airline might be able to weather an IAM strike. Most of the IAM people here on the forum are pretty hard core, but I suspect there are a fair amount of A&P licensed IAM members out there who do not want to see the IAM burn their jobs to the ground for what they may consider ill-conceived stances. With contractors, supervisors and those unwilling to fall on their swords for the IAM line of rhetoric, the company just may be able to keep enough going until outside maintenance contract can be put into place where needed and/or permanent replacement workers can be hired. (There are lots of A&P's out there, just as ALPA always finds there are lots of pilots out there when they set up a picket line.)

[post="169424"][/post]​

Last time management did our jobs a lot of them were fired for failing the drug test and this is the GOD'S honest truth!

I can't imagine enough management is here to replace the mechanics, scabs would be required and it will get ugly at some places, Pit being one, CLT, who knows. Philly, yes, absolutely. Of course a judge will simply not permit chaos

 

[WestCoastGuy]

Working in Customer Service, I would absolutely REFUSE to replace the rampers in loading and servicing aircraft. I would REFUSE to walk across a picket line if the CWA supported the IAM. I have seen NO MANAGERS who could even come close to performing the work done on a daily basis by either the ramp service, mech. or cleaners. They could not handle that...it;s too much work for them!!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

If the company gets new cost cuts with all of the unions except the IAM then the airline will be able to comply with the ATSB terms and then likely have additional access to the capital markets. In regard to aircraft financing, the company is currently financing about 6 to 7 new jets per month.

The company is currently financing 6 to 7 new aircraft per day and Lakefield has held discussions with Airbus for new aircraft delivery's starting in 2005. Airbus has told the company they want to help and could finance these aircraft, just like Boeing did with the B717 to TWA during their difficult time.

In the first year the airline could replace the 41 B767 and B757 aircraft and then bring down the B737s in two more years or vice versa. This would allow the airline to not have to deal with the IAM and incrementally reduce the IAM cost to levels lower than could be otherwise obtained.

It's a very real option and all of the other employees would obtain higher profit sharing checks because the company said in its employee bulletin "All employees who participate in cost savings measures under The Transformation Plan would be eligible to participate in the profit-sharing plan."

This idea would allow the airline to restructure, agree to the IAM's terms to not open their contract, and then simply permanently furlough most of the mechanics without a S.1113 motion.

According to one source, "there is more than one way to skin a cat" and there may be a way to cost effectively conduct maintenance without opening up the IAM's contract, no S.1113 motion, and no strike. In addition, this would permit the company to agree to the mechaincs demand of not opening up their contract and the "concession stand is closed".

Again, the parties each have a chocie: to participate in the new business plan or not to participate in the new business plan.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[robbedagain]

of course my question, how would usair be able to obtain new or used aircraft if they would want to get rid of the 158 boeings? you have have said that they want to expand more overseas flts but you must have 76s or 330s or possibly 75ers but if usair is to get rid of the boeing aircraft then no plane to go to europe--it'd be hard to to do an 8hr ride on a boat to eroupe

 

[WorldTraveler]

A320,
US’ transformation plan makes a lot of sense – except for the part that they want to throw large employee groups overboard in order to make the transformation plan happen. US cannot expect to survive by writing off the maintenance group which is essentially what is being proposed.

I can’t possible see how the IAM could claim victory whether or not they win the arbitration case or not. The business case is clearly based on not having in-house maintenance so the company falters if they are forced to give the IAM the Airbus work. If the company loses, they will eliminate the Boeing fleet, even at the expense of shrinking the airline – which can only happen to the degree needed inside bankruptcy.

There is no way US or any other legacy airline can withstand a labor action of any kind. Investors are already extraordinarily skittish and will all pull the plug at the same time.

You have to understand how unworkable what US is proposing even to those who have no interest in USAirways at all. If it sounds impossible to pull off to me, you can bet the naysayers inside the company have got to make people on this board look very tame in comparison.

 

[cavalier]

If the company gets new cost cuts with all of the unions except the IAM then the airline will be able to comply with the ATSB terms and then likely have additional access to the capital markets. In regard to aircraft financing, the company is currently financing about 6 to 7 new jets per month.

The company is currently financing 6 to 7 new aircraft per day and Lakefield has held discussions with Airbus for new aircraft delivery's starting in 2005. Airbus has told the company they want to help and could finance these aircraft, just like Boeing did with the B717 to TWA during their difficult time.

In the first year the airline could replace the 41 B767 and B757 aircraft and then bring down the B737s in two more years or vice versa. This would allow the airline to not have to deal with the IAM and incrementally reduce the IAM cost to levels lower than could be otherwise obtained.

It's a very real option and all of the other employees would obtain higher profit sharing checks because the company said in its employee bulletin "All employees who participate in cost savings measures under The Transformation Plan would be eligible to participate in the profit-sharing plan."

This idea would allow the airline to restructure, agree to the IAM's terms to not open their contract, and then simply permanently furlough most of the mechanics without a S.1113 motion.

According to one source, "there is more than one way to skin a cat" and there may be a way to cost effectively conduct maintenance without opening up the IAM's contract, no S.1113 motion, and no strike. In addition, this would permit the company to agree to the mechaincs demand of not opening up their contract and the "concession stand is closed".

Again, the parties each have a chocie: to participate in the new business plan or not to participate in the new business plan.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="169444"][/post]​

What you are failing to address is the mechanics psyche when they realize this scenario is occurring. Until this idea of yours is actually accomplished you will need mechanics keeping the airline flying at least until they can dispose of them. So what the mechanics will do is continue to work to keep from being fired, but what they can also do is “work safeâ€￾ which effectively will shut the airline down throwing the bomb into your fantasy. Face it captain, there is simply no “easyâ€￾ way around the mechanics. U will “haveâ€￾ to deal with them because I guarantee to simply dismiss them is not an option that will carry U to the other side and into the land of oz.

 

[USA320Pilot]

As I understand it, if the company gets new agreements with all of its unions except the IAM-M and the airline wins the A320 arbitration hearing, then management may not seek to open up the IAM-M contract.

The cost cuts may be enough to enable the company to comply with the terms of the loan guarantee and lower US Airways' CASM enough to permit the airline to return to the capital markets.

Currently, the company has new aircraft financing for delivery of 6 to 7 new jets per month.

By streaming the fleet the company obtains significant economies of scale, can boost ASM's, average down unit costs, and give the IAM-M what they want, which is to not open up their contract and no concessions.

Then the company can outsource all heavy maintenance except the A330 and furlough about 90% of the mechanics leaving basically line maintenance in the two hubs, four focus cities, and a new other stations.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[cavalier]

As I understand it, if the company gets new agreements with all of its unions except the IAM-M and the airline wins the A320 arbitration hearing, then management may not seek to open up the IAM-M contract.

The cost cuts may be enough to enable the company to comply with the terms of the loan guarantee and lower US Airways' CASM enough to permit the airline to return to the capital markets.

Currently, the company has new aircraft financing for delivery of 6 to 7 new jets per month.

By streaming the fleet the company obtains significant economies of scale, can boost ASM's, average down unit costs, and give the IAM-M what they want, which is to not open up their contract and no concessions.

Then the company can outsource all heavy maintenance except the A330 and furlough about 90% of the mechanics leaving basically line maintenance in the two hubs, four focus cities, and a new other stations.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="169458"][/post]​

I am sure if they win and the IAM loses, then this is exactly what they have in mind and exactly why you will never get a rational thinking mechanic that doesn't have 20 plus years to vote yes.

 

[ITRADE]

My bet: US ALPA makes substantial concessions on pay and work rules. AFA makes smaller ones. CWA makes little ones. IAM does nothing.

US survives for a couple years to 1) either merger with another carrier when the market improves or 2) goes to defcon 1 with IAM and smashes the union.

 

[cavalier]

My bet: US ALPA makes substantial concessions on pay and work rules. AFA makes smaller ones. CWA makes little ones. IAM does nothing.

US survives for a couple years to 1) either merger with another carrier when the market improves or 2) goes to defcon 1 with IAM and smashes the union.

[post="169462"][/post]​

DEFCON 1 Maximum force readiness.

Thanks for the laugh

 

[hadEnuff]

I have been reading this forum for some time now but this is my first post which I am sure will be academic from those that regularly post. I have a good part of my life invested in this company and I wished I knew what direction it was really going to go but it appears we are always a day late and a dollar short. My take on the existing situation is that i think the company will try and get agreements with the piolots and the flight attendant groups and they could care less about the other groups. From a customer service stand point we have no idea what they have the kisok programmed to do and we have no idea who they may have talked to about contract hadling of customer service. Delta Global Services - Customer Service is now handling United Express flights and I am sure United could handle US customer service in some cities. The ramp is rowing the same boat. Does IAM know who the company may have lined up to take over maintenance if they refuse to do the work. Bottom line, I don't think the company really cares if agreements are reached with these groups or not but they do need pilots and flight attendants to keep the airplanes in the air. For CWA it is a no win because the company has basically said with their proposal they do not want career emplyees in customer service and if no agreement is reached they will get what they want in BK Court. There is no BK Judge that will not give the company exactly what they want because it is an election year and the Judge will not be fingered for 30,000 people being unemployed plus if the company says that is what is need to repay the Gov Loan then rest assured it will be a done deal. I feel stringly about this because I have watched the company from the first round of concessions and they have not attempted to change the way we operate or seek non labor cost cuts. I think Bronner wants to get the costs as low as possible so they can show profits and unload it to whomever wants it and labor will not be an issue because we will be lower than just about everone else. Sorry for such a lenghty post but wanted to share my thought and unfortunately everyone is gonna get hit very hard!!

 

[savyinvestor]

The IAM and CWA are getting the shaft. Maybe the AFA won't cave like ALPA thus forcing the company to negotiate in good faith. Best of luck to you! Savy

 

[hadEnuff]

Thanks Savy for the support but as I stated earlier I really do not think the company cares because we have only been viewed as liabilities since Siegel arrived. He had no clue and quickly found out he was in over his head and did not have any idea what to do. I really think he thought the concessions would make the company profitable and that was all that had to be done but whoever he relied on to run the numbers obviously cut too many classes in school because the equation of employee concessions plus projected revenue certainly did not equal profit!!

 

[ktflyhome]

AFA knows something. Go back and reread some of pitbulls posts of late. We have a Dr. Jekkel, Mr. Hyde in our presence. Jr. folks are going to get screwed, whether we like it or not. I have read the proposal. Even the seniors in Pit. It is time to be nice to management or else many will be moving on to another city or jumping ship.

Our Pit Mec Pres. is very quiet of late. . We all know we are history.......I get phone calls everyday.

 

[unit4clt]

In BK the judge has only one obligation; that is to be FAIR!!!!I believe a judge would have a hard time justifying managements request to cut CWA pay35%, after agreeing with ALPA to cut PILOT pay only 12% while increasing hours, keeping about the same take home pay for PILOTS.