Council 70 Meeting USAFA topic 24Jan-

[BajaBabe]

Dear Felow Flight Attendants lets give John Mc Corkle the respect he deserves. He can not do the job if you do not show up. Try Hard to be there it will let everyone know that yes there is hope for all of us. I personally am going to give a trip away. If it does not hurt than it is not worth fighting for. We will not get a raise over the stellar performance of the Hudson River after all you all are the greatest messengers. This is very important get back into believing in yourself you may shock everyone. See you there.Meeting is scheduled for March 4,2009 at the Ramada .Do not leave John out in the cold he is only as strong as the support he gets.........

 

[BajaBabe]

USairways flight attendants- the w2 you pulled off of the hub or were mailed may be incorrect. our union has been aware of the issue for at least 3 days. please call your LEC president as to why they did not alert you of these facts. They didn't bother to even let you know. I believe this is a federal tax issue but let me look into it further.

 

[FlyGuyBWI]

Dear Felow Flight Attendants lets give John Mc Corkle the respect he deserves. He can not do the job if you do not show up. Try Hard to be there it will let everyone know that yes there is hope for all of us. I personally am going to give a trip away. If it does not hurt than it is not worth fighting for. We will not get a raise over the stellar performance of the Hudson River after all you all are the greatest messengers. This is very important get back into believing in yourself you may shock everyone. See you there.Meeting is scheduled for March 4,2009 at the Ramada .Do not leave John out in the cold he is only as strong as the support he gets.........

So True. Get out there, attend the meeting and direct and support your elected leadreship!

 

[Edward]

I've edited the title & am willing to let this stand as the AFA topic. This is a reminder again to all, only moderators are to start a labor thread. Please read the labor thread rules posted at top of forum.

If you are unable to find a labor thread please pm one of us to start a thread. Thank you.

 

[safety stud]

Well folks,

I have an alternative to discuss with you. Since AFA and our bylaws are tied up with USAPA with the M-T clause, there is an alternative to discuss here. If the F/A group was to decertify AFA, establish a new one much like USAPA but call it USAFA. Then the group could negotiate a whole new CBA that would be more beneficial to the group. There would be no tie-ins to the pilot group other than ones we might want to negotiate in. To decertify the union you need a majority plus one from both the east and west. Same goes through for getting a new union on the property.

The established union has led us down the road to concessionary give-backs for many a contract. I for one feel it might be time to radically change the look on the table and establish our own individual contract that no way can be influenced by the pilot group.

Let me put this out to you. If the pilot group gives in to Pref Bidding, through the M-T clause, the 7000 or so of us, through NO negotiating will have to except it. And there lies the company's in to destroying DOH and any symbol of seniority. Our present union has established DOH as it's symbol of strength. Every merger from every airline has given way to original DOH. However, our contract and it's unique tie-in with the M-T clause could be our downfall should we stick with the present union and not go independant with another.

These are just opinions...
However, times being what they are...
Sometimes, you must think outside the box...

 

[AlleghenyVista]

ok..so what happens down the line ,if we form an independant union, and then merge with another AFA carrier? the AFA by-law of merging DOH with 2 AFA carriers is one of the best things AFA has going for it.

 

[N965VJ]

How would a theoretical USAFA integrate DOH with, say, UA?

EDIT: LOL, looks like someone beat me to it.

 

[ebwgs]

How would a theoretical USAFA integrate DOH with, say, UA?

It wouldn't that's why this decertification idea may sound sexy, but it is also ill-advised. It's as ill-advised as the shouts to ditch the me-too clause. My opinion.

 

[flybynite]

Well folks,

I have an alternative to discuss with you. Since AFA and our bylaws are tied up with USAPA with the M-T clause, there is an alternative to discuss here. If the F/A group was to decertify AFA, establish a new one much like USAPA but call it USAFA. Then the group could negotiate a whole new CBA that would be more beneficial to the group. There would be no tie-ins to the pilot group other than ones we might want to negotiate in. To decertify the union you need a majority plus one from both the east and west. Same goes through for getting a new union on the property.

The established union has led us down the road to concessionary give-backs for many a contract. I for one feel it might be time to radically change the look on the table and establish our own individual contract that no way can be influenced by the pilot group.

Let me put this out to you. If the pilot group gives in to Pref Bidding, through the M-T clause, the 7000 or so of us, through NO negotiating will have to except it. And there lies the company's in to destroying DOH and any symbol of seniority. Our present union has established DOH as it's symbol of strength. Every merger from every airline has given way to original DOH. However, our contract and it's unique tie-in with the M-T clause could be our downfall should we stick with the present union and not go independant with another.

These are just opinions...
However, times being what they are...
Sometimes, you must think outside the box...

First thing you need to remember and please go read it as it is in our current contract is we would have PB should the company find a decent program that the AFA agrees to. At this time...they don't have one. And more than likely they never will. Ha-ha.

DOH isn't at risk because of the pilot group.

Lay off the Margaritas.

 

[Zarah]

Let me put this out to you. If the pilot group gives in to Pref Bidding, through the M-T clause, the 7000 or so of us, through NO negotiating will have to except it. And there lies the company's in to destroying DOH and any symbol of seniority. Our present union has established DOH as it's symbol of strength. Every merger from every airline has given way to original DOH. However, our contract and it's unique tie-in with the M-T clause could be our downfall should we stick with the present union and not go independant with another.

How does Pref Bidding destroy DOH and any symbol of seniority?

 

[safety stud]

How does Pref Bidding destroy DOH and any symbol of seniority?

Pref Bidding is based on computer generated input by the flight attendant. Meaning those that will constantly monitor or have access to a computer will be the ones that pick up trips. You would see a mass free for all in the bases, by any means of seniority in trying to pick up time. It would make the ETB look like kindergarden compaired to the present system. Bear in mind, and as mentioned by flybynite, the software mentioned would be the one accepted by USAPA, not AFA. The company will not pay extra for two different types of software that do the same thing. The company wants to get a contract with the pilot group first so that the residual effects can be felt by the F/A group later. Once again, the M-T clause.

What many seen to forget, is the simple fact the company can negotiate with the pilot group, and in most cases, what they accept filters down to the F/A group because of the M-T. Duty Rigs, Bidding proceedures, paramaters are many of the items we find most important, are freely negotiated away by the Pilot Group without as much as a phone call to see how we feel even though we are directly effected by their outcome.

Another poster stated the DOH would be in jepordy should we remove ourselves from AFA. Once you establish a new union, the initial bylaws you vote into place act as your governance. Meaning if you also place as a centerpiece that any merger with another carrier would have DOH as its reference would not conflict with an AFA carrier. Any judge looking at it would see similar protections are placed on both parties.

I never said going to a new union was the right direction, I only stated that it was an option. Something to consider. Keeping the present system, Keeping the present negotiating style, and Keeping the ones in power are what got us all into the mess we are presently dealing with. No one like change, but at some point your going to have to ask yourself.... When is enough... einough...

Just my opinion...

 

[sharktooth]

How does Pref Bidding destroy DOH and any symbol of seniority?

In a major manner.

The pilots looked into Preferential bidding in the early 90's and found that, while the full programs were great, the company would only pay for the cheapest ones, ones that violated seniority to a great degree.

I suspect know that AFA found similar problems with the company proposed "solution".

Edited.

 

[Zarah]

Pref Bidding is based on computer generated input by the flight attendant. Meaning those that will constantly monitor or have access to a computer will be the ones that pick up trips. You would see a mass free for all in the bases, by any means of seniority in trying to pick up time.
Just my opinion...

Is it not true that the original lines would be built by the bid you put into the computer. Your first bite at the apple would be what your seniority could hold at that time, no?

I am sure the union would negotiate more seniority bites at that apple before it let any reserve get a first-come, first-served bite. The union is also negotiating to keep the AIL for the block holders too, that would also help.

Exactly how long should a trip be held for seniority issues before people can pick up something and know instantly if they have it or not?

The computer argument is not valid in this day and age. You can get free computer use and internet at many hotels and local libraries and you always have the option to go to the crewroom. This is your job, make it work.

If a poor system is chosen then just vote no on the contract. Make that point loud and clear. Garbage earns NO votes.

Anyway, even with an explanation I still fail to see how the Pref. Bid System harms seniority. Guess I am slow.

 

[galley princess]

Preferential Bid is already a part of this contract and is not in effect for reasons that Sharktooth stated.

Regardless of what the pilots do, nothing can be imposed on us without getting through AFA and then through us as voters. Dumping AFA will not chase away Preferential bid nor will it chase away Me toos, since you negotiate from where you stand, not from where you want to stand.

AFA is constrained by the fact that we have an agreement until 2012. No entity could do anything about that fact. Unions are only as good as their members and EAST membership voted at gunpoint to save their jobs. Now we're living in the bed we made. As we get closer to our contract end date you will undoubtedly see more company activity. Until then, there's no incentive.

Finally, I still stand stunned that AFA West has not made any attempt to go into court or appeal that ridiculous arbitration decision. Surely three years presents bad faith? Not my sandbox, but geez! If USAPA can find a remedy to a bad arbitrator's decision there has to be something on the table or under the table for West flight attendants. You were in Section 6 right? If West could shake things up that might actually give the company incentive to negotiate a joint contract.

 

[FlightChic]

It violates seniority b/c blockholders won't have 8 chances to rearrange their schedule like they do now. I know there is no way MF will give away the bid sheet but sitll...8 chances! Maybe with PB they will only get 2-3 chances to drop, swap, TWOP or whatever. 😛

As for reserves, we have no seniority. :down:

I'm sure a crappy PB program would violate lots of people's seniority so it's important to have a good system. Even with the way we do it now, I have had my seniority violated lots of times b/c of human error. I would not go so far as to say let's not have PB b/c it violates seniority. It can happen regardless. I think it's about time we get with the times and have a computerized system.