Cry For Cost Cuts Grows Louder

[Fly]

Uinvestor Posted on Feb 28 2004, 03:56 PM

I know many people who would be happy flying planes at $80K, you might need to sell your summer home and boat but you can have a luxury lifestyle at that salary.

I haven't even finished reading this thread but I had to respond to this ridiculous comment. Where can someone live on $80K and be considered living a "luxury lifestyle"? Take that, subtract the taxes (about 1/3, right), divide by 12.....HELLO!!!! The fact that so many are scrounging by on their little pittance of salaries (like me ) is sad enough, but for you to say that $80K is Luxury...well, that's absurd.

 

[Fly]

Uinvestor Posted on Feb 28 2004, 03:56 PM

You complain how you can't live on poverty wages $13 but Jetblue and Airtran employees appear to be doing fine. I don't see them quiting their jobs because they can't live on these low salaries. It is called getting out of credit card debt, not having that extra bedroom house in the gated community or that 3rd car for the weekend. Greenspan stated this week that something must be done with Social Security to keep the program up and running. Why were your parents (60-70's) able to save money but this generation has not learned how to yet? Because they are living in a world of CREDIT. I know many families that have an total family income of 50K that live a modest middle class home, while they might only have 2 cars, one is used, and have a house that costs $100K, they are able to provide for their families. So the people on this board who are complaining about the $13 hr salaries, I ask you this question. Why are you still working at these wages? It is a fair question if the grass is greener on the other side.

Ok, where exactly do we buy these $100K homes? Do they actually make $100K homes?

I was looking at what you consider fair wages for gate agents. Now if you make $13/hour, you make $520 a week (approx) and after taxes about $350. Now I'm no math genius, but isn't that around $28,000 per year? By your own account, a person making $50,000 lives in a "modest middle class home, with a used car (oh yea, and the house cost $100,000 :blink: ) and these folks are "able to provide for their families". So, are you suggesting that airline employees should all be happy to live in a less than modest, low class ghetto homes? Apparently you are, because at $13 an hour, that's where they'll live.

 

[ClueByFour]

If I was Dave, I would outsource all reservation jobs to India if the unions did not agree to a 25% salary reduction.

I have had the experience of spending more money than you make in a year with both US Airways and Dell.

Dell is moving it's call center operations back on shore specifically due to complaints from it's highest revenue customers dealing with their offshored call centers.

I have never had the same magnitude of problems with US agents.

I specifically don't do business with Delta for exactly this reason. I want someone on the phone who can fix my problem without having to bang myself against the wall with a communication breakdown.

 

[PITbull]

Your CEO might have another view on what is obtainable. Your unions have two choices with their future:
--Concessions
--Liquidation

The logical and rational employees will elect to save their jobs at the present moment. This will enable them to look for other employment versus collecting unemployment. Pitbull you clearly do not understand what is happening with your company and have allowed your emotions to take over rational thinking. You should realize that you can't win against the company. I have forgotten his name but the head of your companies labor dept is doing what they were paid to do.

I have always said from my days posting on planebusiness that Pilots and Mechanics should be paid the highest salaries. Why? They have a skill that others do not posses. You can rant all day long about how qualified flight attendants are in society but very few employers will hire them based upon 20 years serving drinks and pushing a cart up the aisle. They do have the CPR training but this was not a requirement unless they plan to become a lifeguard or work in the medical field. If you don't believe me, then contact your local temp agency and ask them what type of jobs does a 20 year flight attendant w/o a college degree qualifies for in today's business world. I know that you will argue that they have college degrees, if so, then they should seek other employment. Chip has stated many times that if one is not happy with his/her job then they should quit. I agree with his opinion on this topic. Since you claim that salaries are at poverty levels, then I would think that these flight attendants would be have the monetary funds to splurge on exotic trips. It would make more sense to get a much better paying job and use that extra money to take vacations.

My closing advice is for all unions to give at least 25% in concessions to save your jobs.

Univestor,

I can tell you for sure that your "future" option of 1. concessions or 2. liquidate, I'll take the liquidation piece.

As you so eloquentely stated, Pilots and mechanics are skilled labor and should be higher paid. I agree.

However, what you lack in logic using your premise above IS F/AS CAN'T MAKE OR BREAK AN AIRLINE ON ANY LEVEL, CAPACITY, OR FORM. Therefore, for managment to achieve some more drastic cost saving from employees is nonsensical and will only impoverish its work force, specifically, your favorite group, the flight attendants.

So, guess what pal, using your logic....LIQUIDATE!!!!!!! I most certainly understand that concept in my illogical, unintelligent, uneducated, unskilled self, world according to uninvestor. :angry:

PS: Correction: My sister is a VP of a call center that is in the US, with US citizens working livable wage jobs. All 500 of them. Making starting 15.97 hourly. They also receive a rate of extra pay for every reservation they secure after a certain threshold. My sister watches this U management intimately, and said she wouldn't treat a dog the way U managment treats its employees. In fact, she gets a howl out of listening to Dave's egotistical hotline messages of boo, hoo, hoo, whoes is me mantra for the past two years. She can't believe that this managment is still on our property operating. By the way, her center is Non union. They don't need one under my sister.

 

[PITbull]

Yes Bob, you make some sense in your equation.

The truth of the matter with U, is that management has been approached about an "early out" many times during this process. Specifically and intensely summer of 2002. How I know, I was there.

What these union busters decided to do instead is covertly change policies so dramtically regarding some of our contract protections with sick, that folks are being terminated at an accerlerated rate. In the next 3 months I will be posting it on these boards and the media will like to have it as well. What? You think that highly of this management that it would be beyond them to do such actions? It is a cost savings isn't it?

They don't need an early out if they have the ability to terminate our older folks. Dont think this management is not talking specifically about the youthful work force of JetBlue vs. U and the benefits they pay out for having an older work force. And don't think we will sit idely back on terminations. Thank god their are federal laws against discrimination for age and disability still left in this country to protect the worker in the work place.

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

Personally, I will not divert my attentions to SW and B6, until these tactics of eliminating our folks stop.

Jerry was paid to do a job here with our unions, and he is "steadfast" in his position and has trained his minions very well. Environment is advisary and it won't change because you "will it" Bob. At this point, U employees are defenseless to fight any competition when they are constantly looking over their shoulders at managment looking for any excuse to get rid of its most experienced, skilled employees.

 

[youngblood]

Uinvestor,

I am a rsv agent and guess what I bring home after taxes and misc deductions. Close to $700 a pay. I am finding it hard to make ends meet let alone live in comfort. Before my husband lost his job we cleared maybe $45,000 a year. Fortunately I had the forsight to pay off my house when we had the money. (Purchase price of my house, by the way, was $50,000.) Yet again someone took Dave's words literally and relied on his words as truth. Topped out a RSV AGNT doesn't make $21 an hour. The majority of our employees are topped out; therefore, average wages are higher because management had their heads too far up their butts to give early retirement as an option when they could.

Grass greener? It will be someday because the college education I have under my belt will get me there. Meanwhile, I keep my job simply because it is the best choice for me at this time. Any more cuts and I will probably have to uproot my family to find what I am looking for. The end of my rainbow is getting closer and I have the stamina to walk the remaining miles. During my journey I will do what is best for me. People like you are simply a road block that I am more than willing to walk around. In the meantime your expectations of what everyone else should do will be deleted from my memory.

P.S. Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, Dominion Peoples are just a few examples of companies that have a higher pay scale for call centers. I do much more than answer phones. The list is pretty darn extensive. If ever you would like to be educated, please let me know.

 

[28yearsnojob]

youngblood you are correct the company should offer pension plan to all
employees who have about 20 yr or more this will save them 100 s of millions
these employees are under the old pension plan that was froze in 1990 or 91
in a seperate trust. Dave could offer these people there pension and make way
for a new group of employees that start out at 1 yr pay ,plus alot of layed off
employees would not come back if they were offered their pension. Queston
why doesnt the IAM and CWA do something and offer this to the company.
this will save the company millions and millions of money. Vacation time ,
sick time, OI time,unemployement tax,sui tax,social security tax,401 match,
base match,fica,vacation time,servance pay,and many more I could go on and on
all this will be at a minimum. Dont they want to show a profit.

 

[OldGuyinPA]

I'd like to book a reservation.....

and I want a super sized surplee in bubblegum flavor....ok

 

[usfliboi]

Pitbull ! One last time. Im not fearful lol ! Its choosing right from wrong. If this wasnt an industry problem and all daves mismanagement id be right there with you . You have confused the two. There will be concessions to save this airline. You dont like it? well fight as u wish . Its about flexablity in the world to day . Well change or die. Iassure you we wont die!

 

[cavalier]

Pitbull ! One last time. Im not fearful

No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.

 

[usfliboi]

No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.

and sometimes cancer doesnt stay in remission for long.

 

[youngblood]

youngblood you are correct the company should offer pension plan to all
employees who have about 20 yr or more this will save them 100 s of millions
these employees are under the old pension plan that was froze in 1990 or 91
in a seperate trust. Dave could offer these people there pension and make way
for a new group of employees that start out at 1 yr pay ,plus alot of layed off
employees would not come back if they were offered their pension. Queston
why doesnt the IAM and CWA do something and offer this to the company.
this will save the company millions and millions of money. Vacation time ,
sick time, OI time,unemployement tax,sui tax,social security tax,401 match,
base match,fica,vacation time,servance pay,and many more I could go on and on
all this will be at a minimum. Dont they want to show a profit.

From what I understand they did approach management and as with many other things were turned down flat. I don't understand the logic nor care to try.