Dec 08 DOT Numbers

[Dog Wonder]

'Well, I've been down so very damn long
That it looks like up to me'

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

They are trumpeting what the "yardstick" is currently, as defined by the DOT aren't they?

 

[NCFL]

I would remind everyone that following a point of view blindly got about 600 folks hanged in Nuremburg in the late 40's.

The current dialog with US over Customer Service issues IS a marked improvement and should be encouraged, not blindly held up as proof positive that all is well.

I have to agree with Itestwell on this one:
1. WTF re Nuremburg (sic)?
2. I haven't seen a single post on here saying "all is well" with a last place year-end ranking. People are just trying to be happy about the fact that US' complaint rate went down 36%. There is absolutely no harm in that. Please stop peeing in their Cheerios.

Concerning the complaint's and coding it back to Express or not, I would think that is disinqenuious to the Customer. If you go to the booking site and book a flight, let's say PHX to TYS, the flight numbers are all given as US.

It's not only disingenuous, I think it's downright deceptive. But...that's the way the DOT says it's to be done. Everything is reported based on the carrier that actually operates the flight. Period.

Yesterday's announcement from Tempe regarding that US was number 1 for on time for 2008 is a joke. US was 3rd, Hawaiian was first and WN was second.

If there's one thing we all know about statistics it's that they lie. A clever statistician and spin doctor can make any set of numbers say just about anything he or she wants. This crap about eliminating certain airlines from the rankings started with Gangwal. You are 100% right. US was third, not first.

 

[BoeingBoy]

They are trumpeting what the "yardstick" is currently, as defined by the DOT aren't they?

Well, you decide....for December DOT says US was #2 and US says it was #1. For the year DOT says US was #3 but US says it was #1. Same yardstick giving two different rankings or two yardsticks?

Jim

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Well, you decide....for December DOT says US was #2 and US says it was #1. For the year DOT says US was #3 but US says it was #1. Same yardstick giving two different rankings or two yardsticks?

Jim

I understand what you're saying.

 

[does this plane go to paris]

Or put differently, how well would WN have done if they had flights into cities like BOS, LGA, EWR, ORD, etc? Just something to think about... (I don't mean to knock them, as they do one heck of a job running an airline year in and out).

The tired, lame argument is that WN doesn't fly into BOS, LGA, EWR, ORD, etc and therefore you can't compare the number's because, the underlining thought process is that those cities are awful and only an experienced fully operational equiped airline can operate there.

Let's look at LAX, WN has been the number 1 carrier for year's and if they are not currently number 1, they are 2. Is LAX an easy airport to get into and out of? Must not be because WN has approx 110 daily flights.

LAS is one of the busiest airports in the world. WN has set up a huge operation, taken market share and done quite nicely. 230 flight's and growing. Seems to me that LAS was once an entrenched city of HP, just like BWI was a US stronghold. If WN is putting so much attention at place were US certainly pinned their hope's, something must be right.

The points are, WN flies into many large congested cities and deals with the delays and adjusts accordinging. You mentioned 4 cities, BOS, LGA, WER, ORD where I don't believe US has a large presence but does flies into and out of. Are you saying those 4 cities cause the delays of the whole system and if you are an airline and going to be judged and based by the DOT? Seems to me that I heard a few years ago when WN entered PHL, the overwhelming statement was, finally, finally, they are going to really learn what ATC delays are watch their smug faces fall when their on time performance falls. Between PHL or DEN, one is scheduled to be the fasted city to have 100 flights a day. something must be right.

 

[mrman]

Great add from the past when NW exclude WN from there rankings. WN does have an outstanding marketing department

http://www.southwest.com/images/ad_gallery/p_ad15.jpg

 

[Old PSA]

One thing senior management has said repeatedly is that US is not operating at the level they want it too. On time has improved, it is now at the arguing point of 1st, 2nd, 3rd by what measure. It's not about last place. Bag handling has improved, middle of the pack now with one 3rd place last year. Again, it not last place. Complaints, the numbers have improved but not near enough. That will be a focus for this year, the whole year, not an instant turn around. They have acknowledged that US is hard to deal with from a customer's perspective. They know US doesn't degrade well in irregular operations and doesn't recover quickly. So, they are going to work on making rules easier to understand, change certain ways business is done. They have created a department whose sole purpose is to put together the plans for going into, during and out of irregular operations. This will include new hardware and software. Candidly they admit it is going to take time. This isn't going to be an instant fix. They are talking years here. US hasn't had a customer service skills training program and still doesn't. One is being developed this year. US has had a high turnover rate in customer service that has kept technical skill levels low. Well, the economy is helping there, people are staying around and building experience.

So, 2009 should be better than 2008 which was better than 2007.

And for those that weren't at the management meeting, they gave a hint of what Envoy class will look like at the end of this year and it really doesn't look at all like US. Individual 4 across with seats angled. Looks a lot like International First on Air Canada. Really sharp.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Since when did etops turn into an old PSA guy?

Sulley, is that you?

 

[Dog Wonder]

And for those that weren't at the management meeting.

Did they have open bar again this year?

 

[FutureUScapt]

The tired, lame argument is that WN doesn't fly into BOS, LGA, EWR, ORD, etc and therefore you can't compare the number's because, the underlining thought process is that those cities are awful and only an experienced fully operational equiped airline can operate there.

The points are, WN flies into many large congested cities and deals with the delays and adjusts accordinging.

This will be my last post on the issue as I'm not going to continue to quibble over facts that are widely accepted by most. But if you want to ignore the facts, I can only shrug.


Now, WN is successful and unique for so MANY reasons; ONE of them is because they, for the most part (although this is starting to change), use less congested airports and are therefore, able to get a higher a/c utilization and avoid delays that other airlines take.

Of the 8 airports with the lowest A14 in 2007 and 2008, How many does WN fly to? TWO

Every other legacy serves ALL of them. At those airports (PHL and SFO), WN has about 100 arrivals between the two (100/3200 daily flights = ~3% of total flights)

Try US now: They operate into all of them, but I'll only calculate the flights for PHL, BOS and LGA. Between the 3, US has about 230 arrivals (230/1308 total mainline flights = ~18% of total flights)

That's hardly comparable...but like I said, you can take it or leave it.



I too would have a problem with this if US didn't clearly specific that it was #1 for all hub-and-spoke carriers, but they DO. On top of that, I think many customers will look at the list, see that WN isn't on it, and probably just assume that they did better than US (because of the positive customer perception WN has).

And for those that weren't at the management meeting, they gave a hint of what Envoy class will look like at the end of this year and it really doesn't look at all like US. Individual 4 across with seats angled. Looks a lot like International First on Air Canada. Really sharp.

I've heard that they were going to put a seat like that in the A332s for a while now, so that's good to hear. Hopefully they will put them in the A333s too, as those J seats are really not competitive anymore. I'm guessing by "angled" you are referring to them not facing directly forwards and not in reference to their recline, which I would think would be 180 degrees flat.

I wonder why US has been so mum on the issue though?? You think with the A332s coming online in just a few months that you want to promote your new J product.

 

[sharktooth]

I wonder why US has been so mum on the issue though?? You think with the A332s coming online in just a few months that you want to promote your new J product.

Mum because they ain't got squat. They are all hat and no cattle.

Until the employees tell management to "pack sand", that is how it will always be.

Simple. Draw a line in the sand and demand a raise. Be ready to strike. Get raise. Simple.

You know, because the employees did not demand performance, excess monies were "invested" in junk bonds, we being the only carrier so unconstrained that they could do so. They are now jinking to avoid responsibility for such a loss, a half billion dollars, of your money.

 

[Hello Newman]

Just look at the Year over Year D0 vs. the A14 improvements.

Mis handled Bags & Customer complainis both improved YOY in the area of 50%.

I take a HELLUVA lot less claims off PHL flights than I did a year ago. I still have the stupidity claims where a pax sits in PHL for two hours and no one xfers the bag from express to mainline but even those are way down. Now if only this same effort can be put into making our express operators more dependable.......

 

[UPNAWAY]

Thought we could put the padding issue to rest once and for all.
Notice the A14 vs the D zero.




2008 By the Numbers
16.5%
DOT A14 improvement from 2007
42.7%
DOT D:00 improvement from 2007
82.9%
2008 DOT A14 for CLT; 17 percent improvement from 2007
76%
2008 DOT A14 for PHL; 21.8 percent improvement from 2007
82.9%
2008 A14 for PHX; 9.1 percent improvement from 2007

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thought we could put the padding issue to rest once and for all.
Notice the A14 vs the D zero.

Hate to break it to ya, but that proves nothing. The A:14 improvement will almost always be a fraction of the D:00 improvement - they'll never be the same percentage improvement.

Sep 08 - A:14 improved 5% while D:00 improved 24%

Apr 08 - A:14 improved 29% while D:00 improved 74%

Unless an airline massively pads their schedule, it's only picking the low-hanging fruit - those flights that are late (DOT A:14) by a few minutes.

Jim