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Dec 2012/Jan 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

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Thats because you are passive and there is really nothing wrong with that ! In certain situations. This is not one of those situations. You may not remember the sacrifices, but there were many. I would love to have you work in my company and pay you 20% below what ur worth. Its about money to this company and most things are...... You settle with out a fight and proclaim your want whilst the whole time defending why you shouldnt get it!..... USAir loves employees like that.
I'd love to see the day when the IAM or TWU fight. And fighting doesn't mean exclusively to do a strike vote or go out on strike and never come back. Labor unions, in general, don't think. Very few are creative or use critical thinking enough to shift the paradigm that has workers 'doomed' in this country and spiriling downward. Employing other principles often associated with the civil rights movement, and key strategic morphs, would change the leverage and change the outcome. Some 'legal' ways to engage the problem 'off the property' would accelerate negotiations and bring peace of mind to the workers with a suitable and respectable contract. Even using the RLA to the unions advantage [yes models do exist] change the leverage and outcomes. As I look at Labor in this industry, what I see are Labor unions who are lazy and settle wherever management wants them to settle at. And the only fight is maybe a website update calling management names. When there is a fight, it's gotta involve academics and tackling the problem of leverage. Unfortunately, Labor unions have been lazy regarding that in this industry whether intentionally or unintentionally so. In the meantime, there is a new class in this country called 'working class'. And although the term isn't new, it has shifted and is no longer associated or tangent to 'middle class'. regards,
 
Tim,the vaunted 'Me Too' had a drop dead date on it.IIRC it was either 60 days or 6 months after exiting chapter 11.
Geez. In ORD it seems like many AMR FSC, if not all that I speak to, hate the TWU but they are concerned with the IAM and seniority. Then they blame DFW for always doing what the TWU says to do. Not sure whether true or not but the folks I know in ORD seemed like they were bigtime against this latest contract and blame DFW and MIA for voting it in. regards,
 
I'd love to see the day when the IAM or TWU fight. And fighting doesn't mean exclusively to do a strike vote or go out on strike and never come back. Labor unions, in general, don't think. Very few are creative or use critical thinking enough to shift the paradigm that has workers 'doomed' in this country and spiriling downward. Employing other principles often associated with the civil rights movement, and key strategic morphs, would change the leverage and change the outcome. Some 'legal' ways to engage the problem 'off the property' would accelerate negotiations and bring peace of mind to the workers with a suitable and respectable contract. Even using the RLA to the unions advantage [yes models do exist]

Maybe an informational Picket with the sign reading " Looks good on the Outside but lacks on the Inside for some Usairworkers "
 
Wings, it's really tough to figure out which union sucks worse. The TWU negotiated better wages while in bankruptcy than the IAM did in the JCBA outside bankruptcy. The TWU also has more scope [amazing isn't it since the TWU gave up tons of stations] as the IAM only has scope that protects about a dozen class 1 stations from being outsourced. TWU has company ownership once the company leaves bankruptcy [4.7%?], profit sharing, 401k. IAM members have a pimped off defined benefit [which was small before the pimping], no ownership. no profit sharing. nothing. But in all of my years, I have never, ever saw a union rape members like the IAM raped us airways fleet service. NO UNION on the US AIRWAYS property raped its members like the IAM raped fleet. Seniority cleansing for those who got laid off was total B&%&** and more anti union than the worst republican. Class 2 pay was an abomination. Never, ever have we seen such things, certainly not at non union delta either. And scope, what a joke. As far as the employees 'uniting', not with these two management unions. If we had a union where we could see where the union ended and management began then maybe, but that isn't the case. The union bosses would never want us united and would never approve some of the legal solidarity models that Dr Martin Luther King Jr employed. These union leaders really don't even give a damn about labor or the union itself. If anyone can use any of their actions as witness against this then please do. regards,

Tim,

You and I both know that the current agreement was a closed door canoli deal. It was not even real negotiations. It was transition negotiations, and canoli sold us out, but the membership thought enough of it to accept it, so we are stuck with it. I wonder what your real motives are hear? What union are you in bed with should a representation election take place? Knowing you, there has to be something driving the IAM sucks banner waicing. Oh and BTW, the seniority raping, Class 2 pay and stations, and the horrible scope were all started in BK's 1 and 2, canoli just extended the terms.
 
Geez. In ORD it seems like many AMR FSC, if not all that I speak to, hate the TWU but they are concerned with the IAM and seniority. Then they blame DFW for always doing what the TWU says to do. Not sure whether true or not but the folks I know in ORD seemed like they were bigtime against this latest contract and blame DFW and MIA for voting it in. regards,

What do they have to worry about? Are they worried that the tables would be reversed and they would become the new "TWA", in that case? Are you concerned with the IAM and seniority, and just disguising it as the AA people are concerned? What is your real motive Tim?
 
We shouldn't be concerned with what his motive is, but instead focus on getting some solid people in place with whatever union we may end up with. Those need to TRULY stand up against to company for a change. TIM is 100% correct in what he says about the unions being lazy for many years now, and taking whatever the company wants them to. Let's face it, in the end it all comes down to dues paying members, and not how much they make or what their benefits. This became crystal clear when the IAM whored out the MLE stations for $13.01 an hour. Just in case you wonder why the One Cent over $13, that was to keep the poor bastards who just took a $7 an hour paycut in the upper dues bracket....
 
Agreed. Being stuck with a company who only wants to commit to once a month negotiations is getting us nowhere. In fact, the way things are progressing, we're going to be a day late and a dollar short. Just what the company has had in mind all along. Frustrating.
There is something else they have in mind that waves anyones argument of what we deserve and will give up in this merger besides the TWU MOU!

Its the Change of Control...Buried in the MOU
 
mike i thought that would be hidden in there and ive suspected that all along i think its time we all form unite whatever and if we have too we should take a strike authorization vote i dont know when is a good time to start something but something needs to be started bec if there going to be a merger announcement its gonna happen real soon and of course with nothing from the company its all up in the air
 
I just don't think that now is the time for our union to get all uppity and making demands , we should do all that we can possibly do to help secure this merger and talk of strike is unwarrnted.
Better to die on your feet than to beg on your knees.

US is making record profits, there and they want a smooth merger, there wont be a better time to make demands.
 
Very accurate indeed. And although I'm not a TWU member, I'm surprised that TWU members thought so less of the "Me Too" to give it up for the 4.3%. That "Me Too" was the best thing about that first bankrupt contract and kept management from dumping everything to pilots. I haven't read the entire giveback program but it appears that the TWU has once again gone incredibly soft. regards,
What the TWU thinks of Tim:

Now the President of TWU Local 512 – President Report:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
At the risk of breathing new life into what should be a dead issue, I would like to use this month’s President’s Message to express my thoughts on the group that calls itself the Allied Ground Workers. I am aware that some of our Local 512 members have been distributing literature about this organization and have solicited others to sign cards authorizing the AGW as the collective bargaining agent for fleet service. Some of you who are reading this may have signed one of these authorization cards. Members who were approached by these AGW supporters told me that they thought they were signing a petition the purpose of which was to show their displeasure with the TWU. In case it was not fully explained to you at the time, let me assure you there is more at play here than just sending a message to your TWU leadership.
This is what could happen.
As stated above, these cards indicate that the signatory authorizes the Allied Ground Workers to be the sole collective bargaining agent for fleet service employees at American Airlines. In the event that AGW were to obtain signatures from a majority of the bargaining unit system wide, they could petition the National Mediation Board for a representational election. There are three possible outcomes of such an election. If the TWU gets the majority of votes cast, the TWU would win. If the AGW gets the majority, it would win. Both of these outcomes are predicated on at least 50% plus one members of the bargaining unit casting votes for one or the other representative. The third possible outcome would occur if less than half the bargaining unit were to cast votes. If that were to happen we would have no union.
OK. That last scenario is too sickening to even contemplate so we’ll leave it be for now.
Let’s talk about the Allied Ground Workers. Who are they? Whom do they represent? What are their credentials and experience? If you visit the AGW website, you will find that their "Interim Director" is Tim Nelson and their "Interim President" is Mike Pruitt. Who are they and who elected them to their positions within the organization? The website does contain a brief "bio" on Nelson (nothing on Pruitt) that raises more questions than it answers. It appears Tim Nelson is very good at making sweeping general statements but is very stingy with supporting facts. With this in mind, one of our Local 512 representatives wrote Mr. Nelson an email respectfully asking him to clarify some of the things he states in his biography. While I give him credit for a prompt response, Nelson failed to answer any of the direct questions posed by our rep. He was, however, quick to take offense when the irony of his characterization of another Union’s system of governance as a "one man band" was pointed out to him. I am starting to suspect that Mr. Nelson is what our brothers and sisters at Local 513 might call "All hat and no cattle".
So what do we know about Tim Nelson, Mike Pruitt and the AGW? Nelson apparently works for US Airways (which just emerged from bankruptcy) though he states this nowhere in his biography and does not answer this question in the email although he was asked this directly. Nor does he answer the question of what work he does for the airline. He does not respond to a question if he was elected to his position or if he is self-appointed. He does not answer the questions of how and when the AGW was founded or whom the AGW represents. (Note: I do not believe the AGW is the bargaining agent for anyone and has never negotiated a contract.) He seems prone to making self-aggrandizing, vaguely messianic statements such as "…having Justice as a core basis of my faith and doing my best to serve it by God’s grace alone…" and "…the courtroom is empty and I am free to serve Justice."
And what do we know about "President" Mike Pruitt. Zip.
The targets of the AGW’s organizing drives are the ramp service employees from US Airways, United Airlines and American Airlines. All of these employees have suffered through painful restructuring either in bankruptcy, in the cases of US Airways and United, or under the threat of bankruptcy in the case of American. All of these employees are currently represented by either the IAM or the TWU. Apparently, the AGW is not interested in organizing employees who have no Union representation. The TWU is currently engaged in an organizing effort at Continental Airlines and spent years working to organize Delta’s ramp employees. The TWU has led successful drives to organize Southwest’s flight attendants and clerks and America West’s clerks. All of these employees lacked Union representation when the TWU began their drives. The AGW, by contrast, are nothing but a bunch of Union-busting predators. Don’t think so? Then why is one of the AGW’s biggest proponents in ORD supplying a link to the National Right to Work Foundation, an organization whose sole purpose it is to undermine organized labor, on the AGW forum website?
If there were to be a representation election and the Allied Ground Workers win, then what would happen? First of all, the contract would remain in force. A new Local would be formed and new officers elected. The AGW Constitution allows for members from more than one employer to makeup a Local so you could be in the same Local as US Airways and United employees. We could end up being led by officers who work at a different airline. An "employer specific" Local could be formed at the discretion of the National Executive Board. (I thought the AGW was supposed to have a "bottom-up" system of governance.) The TWU Local 512 treasury would revert to the TWU International and the new AGW Local would start out with zero dollars. (Under the AGW Constitution, 40% of dues money goes to the International and 60% stays with the Local. The split of initiation fees is 50-50. In the TWU, 70% of dues and 100% of initiation fees remains in the Local.) The new Local and International AGW would be subject to the same federal laws that govern the TWU and all Labor Unions in the airline industry, chiefly the Railway Labor Act (RLA) and the Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act (LMRDA).
As an officer of Local 512 I am bound by an oath to "…bear true and faithful allegiance to the International and Local Union…" and my Union is the TWU. I take that oath seriously and I do my best to live up to it. The TWU has been the …"exclusive and sole collective bargaining agency…" for fleet service at American since 1946 [TWU/AA Agreement, Article 1(a)]. No organization is perfect, just as no leader is perfect. Just as I am not blind to the internal problems of this organization, I am aware of the external forces that have plagued the industry, particularly the "legacy" carriers such as American, and have created downward pressures on industry wages and benefits. Those pressures are not only economic but political as well. The TWU has weathered many a storm in its half-century of representing employees in the industry. We have been through strikes, airline deregulation, Crandall, the demise of Eastern and Pan Am, 9/11 …but we have survived and we have prospered.
There is no question that this past year has been a horrible one for our members. There is no denying it. The TWU membership made the tough decisions necessary to keep the Company solvent and it appears that American is no longer at risk of filing for bankruptcy. Compare our situation with United, still in bankruptcy, and US Airways, just emerged from bankruptcy. Both of those airlines are asking their employees for further concessions with the threat of seeking relief from a bankruptcy judge if they fail to agree. Both United and US Airways have cut back considerably more of their operations and their workforces than American. American is poised to make a profit this year and the sooner it does so the sooner we will start to recover what we lost in the restructuring agreements. Money-losing companies do not agree to wage and benefit increases in negotiations.
Fraternally,

Glenn Harmon
President
TWU Local 512
 
Wings, it's really tough to figure out which union sucks worse. The TWU negotiated better wages while in bankruptcy than the IAM did in the JCBA outside bankruptcy. The TWU also has more scope [amazing isn't it since the TWU gave up tons of stations] as the IAM only has scope that protects about a dozen class 1 stations from being outsourced. TWU has company ownership once the company leaves bankruptcy [4.7%?], profit sharing, 401k. IAM members have a pimped off defined benefit [which was small before the pimping], no ownership. no profit sharing. nothing. But in all of my years, I have never, ever saw a union rape members like the IAM raped us airways fleet service. NO UNION on the US AIRWAYS property raped its members like the IAM raped fleet. Seniority cleansing for those who got laid off was total B&%&** and more anti union than the worst republican. Class 2 pay was an abomination. Never, ever have we seen such things, certainly not at non union delta either. And scope, what a joke. As far as the employees 'uniting', not with these two management unions. If we had a union where we could see where the union ended and management began then maybe, but that isn't the case. The union bosses would never want us united and would never approve some of the legal solidarity models that Dr Martin Luther King Jr employed. These union leaders really don't even give a damn about labor or the union itself. If anyone can use any of their actions as witness against this then please do. regards,
AA also went into bankruptcy with $5 billion in cash, didnt require DIP financing and wasnt going out of business anytime soon.

I was at CCY when GECAS and the ATSB threatened to shut US down.

Compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
 
The IAM has always used dovetail by date into the classification, the TWU represented employees at AA have nothing to worry, unlike what they did to the former TWA and Reno Air employees.
 
mike i thought that would be hidden in there and ive suspected that all along i think its time we all form unite whatever and if we have too we should take a strike authorization vote i dont know when is a good time to start something but something needs to be started bec if there going to be a merger announcement its gonna happen real soon and of course with nothing from the company its all up in the air

Here is the MOU LINK ......read Additional Terms.....(7) is the loss of the " Me Too " and (8) is the Change Of Control lost written as ..... " regardless of the corporate structure used to effectuate the Merger " COC in disquise to not draw immediate attention.

http://twulocal513.o...derstanding.pdf



Sure we lost the court decision a few years back because I believe we still ended up being US ....
 
700, please remember that this wasn't the case for the2008 CBA.
 
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