Dec 2012/Jan 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[Tim Nelson]

One thing is certain... in the event of a merger accountability will be at hand for both the IAM and TWU. It's important to keep in mind both unions have been tasked with representing their members through the demonic bankruptcy process. Additionally, both are established labor organizations in the industry. Both have shortcomings and niether is perfect. The combined membership must decide who they believe will best represent our interests. It is critical, however, throughout this potential election campaign, we do not allow the process to divide the combined workforce. For our own sake, whichever union wins representation rights, they will need solidarity from the combined masses going forward. Not lecturing JFK... just my opinion.

I'm not sure the membership must decide , or should I say will. I think it is more likely that the IAM and TWU will work towards an arrangement. If there is an election then my gut feeling is that a 3rd union like the ibt could come in. If it is between the iam vs twu then I'm not sure why anyone would want the TWU. Not that the IAM is great. regards,

 

[robbedagain]

merger is close accrding to multiple sources.... now would be a brilliant time to have a contract to vote on....

 

[necigrad]

My determination was for my "side" and we won , so I'd say I was pretty effective at that time .

This time my "side" is about preserving jobs , insourcing and increasing our benefits and pay.

So... You voted to get a raise and have people lose their jobs, now you're going to try to get them back? Wow, I hope you were never in the military, you're casuly rate would be atroctous.

 

[Kev3188]

Hell, they lost to a vote to represent the combined DL and NW fleet service merged work group, and DL almost voted for a union a year prior WITHOUT the NW agents! Did a sizable number of NW agents vote against their own union?! So now DL has no union with FSAs as it was deemed to be a better option than having the IAM... that's saying a great deal!

The flight attendants were the group that voted a year prior.

Before the merger, it was actually the TWU that held the last vote on the DL property for the ramp...

 

[ograc]

I'm not sure the membership must decide , or should I say will. I think it is more likely that the IAM and TWU will work towards an arrangement. If there is an election then my gut feeling is that a 3rd union like the ibt could come in. If it is between the iam vs twu then I'm not sure why anyone would want the TWU. Not that the IAM is great. regards,

I agree the conditions could be considered right for a third union, like the IBT, to throw their hat in the ring. The newly raised threshold for cards signed would be a challenge though. Heard from VH recently?

 

[Tim Nelson]

I agree the conditions could be considered right for a third union, like the IBT, to throw their hat in the ring. The newly raised threshold for cards signed would be a challenge though. Heard from VH recently?

Yes, me and VH are good friends and try to see him every so often. He was doing great last time I talked to him. He's out of the union business these days though as he drives around on a golf cart enjoying retirement. As far as a 3rd union, IMO, I don't believe the IBT would be doing a card drive, considering the new rules. A card drive wouldn't be needed. IMO, if there was an election between the TWU and IAM, then I'm quite sure that the IBT would kick their collective arses. regards,

 

[ograc]

Yes, me and VH are good friends and try to see him every so often. He was doing great last time I talked to him. He's out of the union business these days though as he drives around on a golf cart enjoying retirement. As far as a 3rd union, IMO, I don't believe the IBT would be doing a card drive, considering the new rules. A card drive wouldn't be needed. IMO, if there was an election between the TWU and IAM, then I'm quite sure that the IBT would kick their collective arses. regards,

He and I have remained in touch through the years also. Spoke with him just a few weeks ago. Retirement and golf are definately agreeing with him. He maybe retired but union business remains in his blood. You're saying a card drive would not be required of the IBT if they chose to be on a future ballot? I know I am speaking about many years ago but... at the time when we were represented by the IBT we had an industry leading contract. Much has taken place since then within the industry but it seems over the years that was the pinacle of our Fleet contracts.

 

[wings396]

At this point you don't have to concern yourself with the field stations, as they are all pretty much toast. I will never consider any new CBA as a victory over outsourcing. unless we get some of the work back. How many people are aware that it takes nearly TWICE the amount of ML flights to get a station back as it took to lose it? That's right, outsourced if you fall below 56 per week, 91 to get it back, PATHETIC...

 

[ograc]

At this point you don't have to concern yourself with the field stations, as they are all pretty much toast. I will never consider any new CBA as a victory over outsourcing. unless we get some of the work back. How many people are aware that it takes nearly TWICE the amount of ML flights to get a station back as it took to lose it? That's right, outsourced if you fall below 56 per week, 91 to get it back, PATHETIC...

Pathetic indeed. Both thresholds need to be lowered dramatically. I'm real curious what kind of proposals have been passed regarding this issue in negotiations. You're right though any relief may be too little too late for the existing field stations. While both parties are passing proposals to each other more field stations are likely to be outsourced and more jobs will be lost under the pathetic language in the CBA.

 

[mike33]

Pathetic indeed. Both thresholds need to be lowered dramatically. I'm real curious what kind of proposals have been passed regarding this issue in negotiations. You're right though any relief may be too little too late for the existing field stations. While both parties are passing proposals to each other more field stations are likely to be outsourced and more jobs will be lost under the pathetic language in the CBA.

All the more reason to look closely at cleaning up our contract..... AA Fleet contract averaged yearly for a Boggie of 15 flts per day to outsource and 20 to get back the insourcing.

''(c) The Company will continue to assign American Airlines TWU represented employees in classifications designated by the Company to all stations wherein such TWU represented employees are assigned currently with 5475 and above annual departures and will staff new cities (those not currently staffed by the TWU) at or above 7300 annual departures. The Company will also re-staff former TWU staffed cities that have been de-staffed once those cities reach 7300 and above annual departures. ""

 

[700UW]

There is more to it than what you just posted.

After numerous discussions with respect to the scope of work, it was agreed that the Company will have the ability to outsource all dayline cabin cleaning work (including any work performed by Fleet Service Clerks pursuant to Attachment 1.XX- Contracting Out Ron/Ultraclean Aircraft Cabin Cleaning), all mail handling work, all cargo handling work, with the exception of DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA and ORD, all fueling work, all bus driving work, Interline Cargo work at JFK/MIA and all bag transfer work relating to American Eagle and/or any other commuter air carrier that feeds American which is currently performed by AA TWU represented Fleet Service/Ground Service employees.

Dear Robert,
This will confirm our understanding reached during the negotiations leading up to the agreement signed on DOS.
During these negotiations, we agreed that the following seventeen (17) stations will continue to be staffed with TWU represented employees following the implementation of Article 1©. Those stations will remain staffed, with TWU represented Fleet Service employees, so long as the annual departures are at or above 2555 from the effective date of this agreement up to the day prior to the amendable date.
ATL JFK MIA STL
AUS LAS ORD TPA
BOS LAX SAT
DCA LGA SFO
DFW MCO SJU

http://www.twubkfact...F1Q=&tabid=2010

So AA only has to staff the stations listed above which is 17, how many stations does US staff its own fleet?

 

[mike33]

There is more to it than what you just posted.




http://www.twubkfact...F1Q=&tabid=2010

So AA only has to staff the stations listed above which is 17, how many stations does US staff its own fleet?

I dont know. Maybe freedom can find out for us.

 

[ograc]

All the more reason to look closely at cleaning up our contract..... AA Fleet contract averaged yearly for a Boggie of 15 flts per day to outsource and 20 to get back the insourcing.

''© The Company will continue to assign American Airlines TWU represented employees in classifications designated by the Company to all stations wherein such TWU represented employees are assigned currently with 5475 and above annual departures and will staff new cities (those not currently staffed by the TWU) at or above 7300 annual departures. The Company will also re-staff former TWU staffed cities that have been de-staffed once those cities reach 7300 and above annual departures. ""

Both agreements are pathetic. One more than the other. This election could come down to holding your nose and choosing between the lesser of two evils. Niether union has pushed back enough in negotiations regarding this issue. It's puzzling to me why they haven't given that it's eliminating jobs of dues paying members.

 

[wings396]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Parkers plan a bit softer on the outsourcing of AA stations? I seem to recall that a few more stations would remain staffed with ML people.

 

[ograc]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Parkers plan a bit softer on the outsourcing of AA stations? I seem to recall that a few more stations would remain staffed with ML people.

You could be right but 17 + a handful more stations that will be served with a combined carrier still adds up to pathetic. IMO... both unions have failed miserably regarding this issue. One worse than the other. No wonder union represented jobs continue to decline in this country. In the private sector, according to recent government statistics, union represented jobs are at their lowest point since the 1930s. Below 10% I believe. As a result labor loses it's financial resources and more impotantly their leverage. In the future those who are lucky enough to remain employed will pay the price.