Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

The American pilots have their pensions intact and are being offered 13.5% of the new company. That's because they stayed unified, refused to take what was being offered and did not listen to the prophets of doom. They got what they got because they refused to back down, threw out their leader that was telling them they had better take what was being offered or else and stood up for themselves. That is just one issue. Fleet size and scope also must be studied because once we give that up, we really do lose control of our destinies. Just look at the number of RJ's in CLT or PHL on any given day and think where you would be if the main line was flying most of those flights.

The investors will make billions. Horton is reported to make $60 million out of this. You can bet Parker and Kirby will make that much and more no matter what. So now what will happen to the very people that made all this possible for everyone else? Will we cave in because we are told that we must be "reasonable" or will we stand up for ourselves and our families and take a tougher stand? WE CAN NOT STOP THIS TRANSACTION. WE CAN ONLY PROFIT FROM IT!

...

No doubt the APA pilot group has done well because they remained unified as a group and pursued a reasonable return from management before they gave their "yes" to the new contract terms... and it was ultimately pilots who forced their reps and management to get on the correct path.

The reps of APA and USAPA would do well now to establish mutual contract terms that ensure a continuation of APA unity and incorporates a new unity in the apparently inevitable combination. A new contract that enables a modicum of unity is in every pilots interest.... evidence the damage of the disunity among pilots after every merger for the last few decades.

For starters the APA is keeping their pension and gets a $100K pot of stock in the new company. No one can sneeze at that.

Thus, DUI has set a standard of compensation very high and it will cost him a lot if USAir pilots demand a commensurate level of compensation, or in the alternative DUI has made it very easy for USAir pilots to acquiesce to a huge self-inflicted disparity, perpetual disunity and discontent in the combined pilot group.... especially if the USAir pilots allow continued unequal pay rates, forfeit their LPPs, or forfeit more scope.

I really don't care about pilots who want to keep pointing fingers about how we got here. That is irrelevant.

DUI has a proven track record of being "successful" by dividing labor. Does anyone think he is not continuing that exact same strategy now (offering APA to keep their pensions and $100K each)? What is he offering ALL PILOTS?

What are the APA and USAPA Reps doing to counter DUI's effort to perpetuate divided labor?

What are you willing to settle for from the reps and management?

 

[Metroyet]

Yep, let's do it. Then you can lose another court case. DOH has already been shown to be within a "wide range of reasonableness".

Let's get on with it.

DOH has already been shown to be within a "wide range of reasonableness" has it? Sure. No argument there I guess. However, is it "reasonable" to enter willfully into binding arbitration via your union, get the results, not like it, form a new union that has no interest in their DFR, and using said fake union as a weapon against a minority group? Is it "reasonable" post arbitration, to allow the majority of pilots to dictate a new seniority list whereby the majority gains seniority at the sole detrimint to the minority group?

I believe a Jury already answered that for you. Despite the ripeness issue, Addington broke USAPA's back. That's why you've gotten exactly nowhere in 5 years. That's why you're going to retire on LOA93 without the merger. You have no LUP and every single one of us knows that. The company CERTAINLY knows that, (thank you Addington). Just because you and the rest of the idiotic zealots don't get it doesn't change anything.

 

[high*flyer]

Phoenix, good question... And thoughtful post....

 

[Metroyet]

No doubt the APA pilot group has done well because they remained unified as a group and pursued a reasonable return from management before they gave their "yes" to the new contract terms... and it was ultimately pilots who forced their reps and management to get on the correct path.

The reps of APA and USAPA would do well now to establish mutual contract terms that ensure a continuation of APA unity and incorporates a new unity in the apparently inevitable combination. A new contract that enables a modicum of unity is in every pilots interest.... evidence the damage of the disunity among pilots after every merger for the last few decades.

For starters the APA is keeping their pension and gets a $100K pot of stock in the new company. No one can sneeze at that.

Thus, DUI has set a standard of compensation very high and it will cost him a lot if USAir pilots demand a commensurate level of compensation, or in the alternative DUI has made it very easy for USAir pilots to acquiesce to a huge self-inflicted disparity, perpetual disunity and discontent in the combined pilot group.... especially if the USAir pilots allow continued unequal pay rates, forfeit their LPPs, or forfeit more scope.

I really don't care about pilots who want to keep pointing fingers about how we got here. That is irrelevant.

DUI has a proven track record of being "successful" by dividing labor. Does anyone think he is not continuing that exact same strategy now (offering APA to keep their pensions and $100K each)? What is he offering ALL PILOTS?

What are the APA and USAPA Reps doing to counter DUI's effort to perpetuate divided labor?

What are you willing to settle for from the reps and management?

Parker needs APA. Parker has NO NEED for USAPA. APA has value he NEEDS to pay for. USAPA is worthless. That's why they keep their pensions and 100k and you get next to nothing. Is it really that difficult to understand?

 

[high*flyer]

Parker needs to convince the market that he can consummate a merger, that is why he has met with USAPA.

 

[luvthe9]

Parker needs to convince the market that he can consummate a merger, that is why he has met with USAPA.

Not sure he will be able to do that at this time, hoping for AMR to come out on their own.

 

[Metroyet]

Parker needs to convince the market that he can consummate a merger, that is why he has met with USAPA.

The market could care less about pilot issues. They only care about the cash. In that regard, Parker has been more than convincing. If he doesn't already, he's going to regret inviting USTUPID to the table.

 

[cleardirect]

No doubt the APA pilot group has done well because they remained unified as a group and pursued a reasonable return from management before they gave their "yes" to the new contract terms... and it was ultimately pilots who forced their reps and management to get on the correct path.

The reps of APA and USAPA would do well now to establish mutual contract terms that ensure a continuation of APA unity and incorporates a new unity in the apparently inevitable combination. A new contract that enables a modicum of unity is in every pilots interest.... evidence the damage of the disunity among pilots after every merger for the last few decades.

For starters the APA is keeping their pension and gets a $100K pot of stock in the new company. No one can sneeze at that.

Thus, DUI has set a standard of compensation very high and it will cost him a lot if USAir pilots demand a commensurate level of compensation, or in the alternative DUI has made it very easy for USAir pilots to acquiesce to a huge self-inflicted disparity, perpetual disunity and discontent in the combined pilot group.... especially if the USAir pilots allow continued unequal pay rates, forfeit their LPPs, or forfeit more scope.

I really don't care about pilots who want to keep pointing fingers about how we got here. That is irrelevant.

DUI has a proven track record of being "successful" by dividing labor. Does anyone think he is not continuing that exact same strategy now (offering APA to keep their pensions and $100K each)? What is he offering ALL PILOTS?

What are the APA and USAPA Reps doing to counter DUI's effort to perpetuate divided labor?

What are you willing to settle for from the reps and management?

Ha! Unity. You east pilots destroyed that a long time ago.

You don't want to acknowledge who to point the finger at because it is you east pilots.

8 years of demanding, 8 years of trying to impose what you could not get has come back to bite you all in the a$$.

This is your pig sty you created it, live with your filth.

The APA got what they got because they were in for all the pilots. Usapa is going to get what you get because you were in it for east pilots only.

Karma is a bad girl and you east pilots are about to be slapped.

 

[high*flyer]

Relax, it will be over soon....

 

[high*flyer]

"Parker has been more than convincing."Really? Where have you been the last 8 years?

 

[Metroyet]

"Parker has been more than convincing."Really? Where have you been the last 8 years?

Profits. Huge profits from a bk airline. All that matters.

 

[high*flyer]

Oh my bad, thought we were talking about completing a merger.

 

[Claxon]

Ha! Unity. You east pilots destroyed that a long time ago.

You don't want to acknowledge who to point the finger at because it is you east pilots.

8 years of demanding, 8 years of trying to impose what you could not get has come back to bite you all in the a$$.

This is your pig sty you created it, live with your filth.

The APA got what they got because they were in for all the pilots. Usapa is going to get what you get because you were in it for east pilots only.

Karma is a bad girl and you east pilots are about to be slapped.

And you are about to be slammed hard on the bottom. Fitting. It is your vision of furloughed.

 

[Metroyet]

Oh my bad, thought we were talking about completing a merger.

The merger has been completed years ago.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Ha! Unity. You east pilots destroyed that a long time ago.

You don't want to acknowledge who to point the finger at because it is you east pilots.

8 years of demanding, 8 years of trying to impose what you could not get has come back to bite you all in the a$$.

This is your pig sty you created it, live with your filth.

The APA got what they got because they were in for all the pilots. Usapa is going to get what you get because you were in it for east pilots only.

Karma is a bad girl and you east pilots are about to be slapped.

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