Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[HPearlyretiree]

I wonder what is meant by the term "binding", in "binding arbitration"?

I also wonder how the east could be so stupid as to believe Seeham?

Yup. When you make an agreement, you are supposed to live up to it...no special rules apply like making up your own phony union to get out of the responsibilities you agree to.

Good luck dealing with the deluded, they are like a cult and they are realizing that the end of the world didn't happen and they didn't go to heaven.

 

[high*flyer]

They'll be asking for our seniority list, not a list of our DOHs.

By the way, the contract says what the seniority list is and I think they will have a copy of our contract.

 

[high*flyer]

You must have been out that day... USAPA is bound to intergretion by DOH. Surely you've seen the stickers."DOH leads to unity"....

 

[Phoenix]

Yup. When you make an agreement, you are supposed to live up to it...no special rules apply like making up your own phony union to get out of the responsibilities you agree to.

Good luck dealing with the deluded, they are like a cult and they are realizing that the end of the world didn't happen and they didn't go to heaven.

The only fault you all have is that you never learned the distinction of a "valid argument" and a "true argument", so you are left with finding wickedness in anyone with whom you disagree. Being ignorant (perhaps willfully) of the distinction you have no means to ascribe good moral intent to your fellow man that exercises means lawfully available to him, if it results in an outcome that you oppose.

"Fair and equitable" was part of the terms that Nicolau had to abide by, and ALPA, right or wrong, provided a means for both sides to be the judge of "fair and equitable" by providing veto authority via a simple majority on either side--even on the smaller side. The result was that, fewer than 25% could reject the ALPA directed outcome. There is nothing morally special about either side. If the shoes where switched the reactions and efforts would have been exactly the same.

I apologize for interrupting your single issue rant. Please carry on.

 

[Ames]

Actually...not only are you the LIAR there, but also just another little AWA "spartan", "knight"...and perhaps even little Princess...that refuses to accept even a gentleman's wager to recreational flight.? C'mon "tough guy"...You flew F4's..right?...that should make you the true Champion Deluxe of the pathetic little AWA princesses...most all of which are complete, hopeless, and utter wimps...How about we do the wager? 🙂 The truth is that you whole, patheitc "westies" contingentmostly make me sick...and you're the ONLy one who's stated any actual "street cred" on this thread = You're fair game.

C'mon "Bad Dude"...You've the proper mouth and the arrogance son...let's back that up, shall we? 🙂 C'mon Ames...As pathetic as it is: Your the ONLY one of your pathetic AWA kindred here that's even referenced any real flying...How about the wager? 😉

Frankly..as even a very junior officer...You don't much impress me, so far....feel lucky? 🙂 You DON'T get ANY free out here = You're really an Aviator/USAF/etc and F4 sort who's actually got a pair...or you're just another pathetic, lying, arrogant, entirely worthless, little AWA Princess/Pissant....Your choice.

"Once again proving himself to be the ultimate asswipe.... and a lying POS. " Them's fightin' words little AWA princess/punk...You're properly now and firmly called out son! 😉

Tell me that anyone here wouldn't just love to be part of, video/whatever the results of an east-west, aerial "duel" of any sort?...Thought so. Pressure's now on you, precious lilltle Ames Princess.....? Do you honestly have even the slightest shred of supposed "Honor" or "Integrity"?..or are you just another, completely pathetic, westie Fantasyland type?

Take your time son, as I sadly expect that you're nothing more than yet another blowhard, pathetic little AWA Princess, and complete BS artist...PLEASE, PLEASE prove me wrong here...I'm SERIOUSLY bored with this "airline" BS! 🙂 It's been like trying to talk on a "pilot" thread with no/precious few actual Pilots present!

WTF? After all of this pathetic BS just show one time I spoke of beating someone up in the schoolyard.

You truly are a pathetic POS, eastus and it is apparent your meltdown is in progress.

 

[Ames]

There's never any shortage of stray dogs to blow...

Sounds like the voice of experience.

 

[Ames]

In other words...all of you worthless little AWA "tigers" are just nothing more than pathetic, mouthly gutless little pussies, that can't stand up to any challenge whatsoever, and needs must mask your spineless nature to yourselves with such BS as you offer.

OK...Understood. You could have just simply said that, and saved the reading audience any waste of their time. 🙂 Oh!...wait! I see now...since your'e not anything more than a complete joke of a "Pilot"...we should still engage on a keyboard basis? Seek out the stray dogs, and do something usefull, that's within your actual abilities. 🙂

What are you challenging and what does it have to do with flying F4's? I don't have an xbox or a wii so I can't dogfight you but I would be most agreeable to five minutes in the ring, with or without gloves.

 

[nic4us]

The only fault you all have is that you never learned the distinction of a "valid argument" and a "true argument", so you are left with finding wickedness in anyone with whom you disagree. Being ignorant (perhaps willfully) of the distinction you have no means to ascribe good moral intent to your fellow man that exercises means lawfully available to him, if it results in an outcome that you oppose.

"Fair and equitable" was part of the terms that Nicolau had
to abide by, and ALPA, right or wrong, provided a means for both sides to be the judge of "fair and equitable" by providing veto authority via a simple majority on either
side--even on the smaller side. The result was that, fewer than 25% could reject the ALPA directed outcome. There is nothing morally special about either side. If the shoes where switched the reactions and efforts would have been
exactly the same.

I apologize for interrupting your single issue rant. Please carry on.

There is no "veto power", in binding arbitration, and there is no "veto power" in fact or implied in the TA.

You are confusing the ability to force separate operations by frustrating Operational Pilot Integration,with some hair brained union busting lawyers scam on milking a bunch of scabs for over $10 million, getting them to believe in the
fantasy you just wrote.

No changes here at ol'e LCC, still only have one system seniority list and it is still the Nic.

 

[cleardirect]

Right Clear, the Men's room janitor will hand over the list...

What I said was the certified bargaining agent, APA will turn in the list. Do you disagree?

usapa will be a bad memory before we get to arbitration.

 

[Ames]

PM to your "heroic" rep, "cactusboy" little westie eunuch: "Intent on staying nothing more than a completely chickenshit, big mouthed, pathetic little punk?.....Or, would you care to try your luck at becoming a great "Hero" to your west kindred? 🙂

Step up punk...I'm past bored with you pathetic jackasses.
well....PM if interested.

Do think on it though....I'm light years past bored with you pathetic little west punks...Wake me up here! 😉 You're supposedly, and I think only supposedly, but no matter, a "Pilot", and a presumed "Hero" to the west. WHAT could possibly be better for you, not only politically, but personally and to the aclaim of your entire group...than to defeat the arrogant EASTUS in the sky? I mean really...What could be better for you? We could have whatever cameras/etc present that you wish.......Ummm...Well..that is...unless you know that you're nothing even close to a Real Pilot...but THAT couldn't be true...could it, little boy? 🙂

C'mon...I'm bored with this BS...let's actually FLY! 😉 You want so much as an ounce of respect?...Fine...earn it! You've little to lose here. Your west idiots know that you're just another west idiot. I'm "Eastus", and military/non-fantasy war/etc.The worst you could do is just get you ass kicked, which admittedly, would be the certain outcome The BEST you could do however, would be to score a mighty blow for AWA arrogance...well...ok...good luck with that,.....but work with me here...I'm trying to get this to happen. 😉 Generating any engagement is hard to do with complete and utterly worthless pussies. Show me I'm wrong with you there....?"

What's your guess that he takes me up there? 🙂 " Be careful old man you may stress beyond your capability." Surprisingly?...I'm comfortable taking my chances with that..is cactusboy?....or YOU? 😉

"Generating any engagement is hard to do with complete and utterly worthless pussies." I see fifidriver online. Please consider yourself equally challenged and affronted, and do let us all know your explantion for being among the aforementioned group = "complete and utterly worthless pussies."

Meltdown fully in progress. Is there any doubt?

 

[cleardirect]

Well "YOUR CONTENTION" is probably the vehicle for an absolute resolve , other than JUDGE SILVER, but knock yourself out! When HORTON emerges in control and sells the PHX contracts off ! U are toast!

So that is your plan to avoid the Nicolau? Hope that Horton sells the west off.

How is that sale working out for Horton and eagle? Has he found a buyer for that yet? what makes you think he would have a buyer for the west?

What makes you think he needs a couple more east coast hubs to go along with the east coast hubs he already has?

 

[nic4us]

You must have been out that day... USAPA is bound to intergretion by DOH. Surely you've seen the stickers."DOH leads to unity"....

You must have missed the day a jury turned in the guilty verdict towards the scabs and their scab C&BLs.

No worries, the company was there, having colluded with Seeham and getting themselves out of the lawsuit by bringing the TA10 grievance before the system board.

 

[Claxon]

Another steaming pile of stale news. The West pilots got profit sharing because they were due it. Not rocket science, and in fact the entire East MEC at the time agreed it was better to give to them right off the bat, then take the chance of ALL losing the fundage. At the time (late 2006) it amounted to each East pilot giving up about $600 of about 5K..of moneys that would actually already belonged to the West. Had the battle been fought, there was no "profit sharing fund." During arbitration, had the Company had a bad year, they simply would have spent the moneys. Please. Old news. Old logic. Dead issue. Move on.Greeter

You mention steaming piles. That would be the way alpa national gave to the west pilots a 10 percent DC plan and profit sharing, they had neither in their west agreement. In the poorly written transition agreement by alpa, it was given away with nothing in return.

You say it is not rocket science, yet your alpa type explanation above, makes it rocket science.

 

[cleardirect]

I am touched that you affectionately desire to have me keep adding to my replies to you. Its ok, ya just can't get enough. It happens. :wub:


Actually MB provides equal protection. The Women's room janitor won't be excluded. Tsk. Tsk.

Equal protection? Like the west has had from usapa?

Well it will be the APA that decides who and what gets protected. The first thing APA will do is protect the organization from liability, just like ALPA did. That would mean using the Nicolau. Combining operations is also protecting everyone equally. Not delaying to negotiate some made up list and C&R.

A DOH list places 85% of the east in the top 50% of the combined list and 61% of the american pilots would go in the bottom 50% of a combined list. That is not protecting everyone equally.

You may be responding but you are not answering the question. So I ask again what is the plan for the east hard core DOH junkies to avoid the Nicolau?

 

[Claxon]

First. Clax, we are on the same team. But you have to at least get the history right. I am asking here, but I believe the West already had a contribution, and that it was brought up a few percentage points by Parker to match our current 10%. There is a rub here, because Parker claimed for years he was bound by the CBA from moving any compensation forward, for either group. But he indeed favored the West on this one. Good for them, it did not come out of my "pie," I could care less what they get. Greeter

Excuse me, I thought we were dealing with facts. "I believe the West already had a contribution.." They did not, it was given away by alpa.