Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

There is no "veto power", in binding arbitration, and there is no "veto power" in fact or implied in the TA.

You are confusing the ability to force separate operations by frustrating Operational Pilot Integration,with some hair brained union busting lawyers scam on milking a bunch of scabs for over $10 million, getting them to believe in the
fantasy you just wrote.

No changes here at ol'e LCC, still only have one system seniority list and it is still the Nic.

Wrong! The "veto" power is in the TA, it's called a "ratified" JCBA, got one of those, if so, please forward me a copy. You might send one on to the people who build the permanent bids here at LCC also, because the last two bids they put out were separate East and West (DOH) based. Why do you suppose that is?


seajay

 

[Zone5]

There is your problem. usapa is bound to DOH. M/B arbitration, the company and APA are not. The company is bound by a contract so is usapa. Being bound by DOH is why usapa will not be able to negotiate a list and why it will go to arbitration. Arbitration is not DOH.

Little sayings do not answer my question. I asked for details. How does usapa and the east pilots avoid the Nicolau?


Honestly... If it were me, I would avoid it by embracing it... Use the merger to tack on a 5 year fence between the 3 "separate" pilot groups. Westies have their lollipop back, AAA protected reguardless of an arbitrated MB, and east has what they have wanted all along.... But that's just me... Now back to reality... No way the BPR votes 11-0 for a MOU that includes the NIC...AAA vote was 11-5 without a five year dispute... Just saying.

Works for me!


seajay

 

[mrbreeze]

If there was a way to avoid the Nicolau in the MOU why did. It take 3 days for the BPR to vote to send it out?

They were stuck and finally realized all roads lead to the Nicolau.

Again, Clear, this is all speculation on your part, not the facts.

SLI is not addressed in the MOU. Remember the early framework? Contract first?

My speculation is that the BPR was struggling with the COC issue.

SLI was not part of the discussions. None of the parties involved wanted to wade into that cesspool at this point....it's on the back burner.
breeze

 

[algflyr]

Seniority was addressed in the T/A. A ratified MOU is a new contract voted on by the US Airways pilots. Voted separately from the American pilots. The MOU completes the requirements of the T/A and implements the Nicolau.

So it's your opinion that a ratified MOU will complete the TA requirements and implement the NIC...

The MOU will most likely be voted upon late Jan/early Feb... If it passes, as I suspect it will, you contend that the NIC will be implemented at that time...

So... There will not be a permanent bid for April. Most likely the next one will come out next month effective in May. Is it your belief that the West pilots will be able to bid into the East positions? All the Captain slots that will be open due to retirements can be filled by West pilots? All your east coast commuters will be able to bid into East bases and all your furloughed pilots will get recalled? Just asking... If the MOU passes, is this the outcome you expect to see next month on the next East permanent bid??

 

[nic4us]

Wrong! The "veto" power is in the TA, it's called a "ratified" JCBA, got one of those, if so, please forward me a copy. You might send one on to the people who build the permanent bids here at LCC also, because the last two bids they put out were separate East and West (DOH) based. Why do you suppose that is?


seajay

Nope no veto power.

I will explain it again.

The TA calls for the methodology of SLI in section IV titled Seniority List Integration. That methodod was followed and completed and LCC accepted the combined seniority list for the company. The Nic list is the status quo at LCC under the terms of our contracts and the RLA.

Now the veto power you refer to can be found in section VI. Tittled Operational Pilot Integration. Section A. Of paragraph VI requires two things (i) "completion of the integrated pilot seniority list and (ii) negotiation of the Single Agreement.

Notice the SLI and the Single agreement are two separate things altogether?

There is no veto power in the TA. The official accepted system seniority list at LCC is the Nic, end of story. Further, the Nic is not going away, that is what is meant by "BINDING ARBITRATION".

The only veto power in the TA is the ability to decline a new JCBA, not over ride the Nic. The east has excessed that clause and chose to stay on LOA93. Well sort of, cause the scabs have done everything in their power to try and renege on LOA93 also.


Again, you folks are idiots for following Seeham. But, even his plan acknowledged that the Nic was it until RENEGOTIATED. Hence, even Seeham recognized the Nic is the list at LCC til the union gets something else implemented.

 

[nic4us]

LCC does not have a "contract", the West has a contract (DOH) and the East has a contract (DOH), there is no "our contact" and never will be. Did I miss the vote for a JCBA between East and West? When our seniority "lists" are requested "they" will be submitted and the "powers that be" will make of them as the "process" called for in the MOU outlines. Will MB in the end make the call? Probably.


seajay

Also wrong.....the TA is the contract that amends both of our CBAs for use at LCC.

Further, since LCC has been operating under the terms of the TA for the past 7 years, i.e. Maintaining min fleet protections, recalling per the TA, integrating the E190s etc.etc.

We only have one system seniority list for LCC, it is the Nic, and failure to use the Nic in a SLI with another airline leaves the company and the surviving union on very "dangerous ground" and likely to feel the "pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR"!

 

[cleardirect]

So it's your opinion that a ratified MOU will complete the TA requirements and implement the NIC...

The MOU will most likely be voted upon late Jan/early Feb... If it passes, as I suspect it will, you contend that the NIC will be implemented at that time...

So... There will not be a permanent bid for April. Most likely the next one will come out next month effective in May. Is it your belief that the West pilots will be able to bid into the East positions? All the Captain slots that will be open due to retirements can be filled by West pilots? All your east coast commuters will be able to bid into East bases and all your furloughed pilots will get recalled? Just asking... If the MOU passes, is this the outcome you expect to see next month on the next East permanent bid??

My opinion is it can be argued that the MOU could be considered a single argument. Thus implementing the Nicolau. That btw is the opinion of the APA.

It can also be argued that a joint contract would be a single agreement and implement the Nicolau.

Yes quite possibly we could be bidding any open position in the us airways system. There may be some issues that delay that a couple months. But like I said if the lawyers say it has to be a joint contract that would be a few more months.

Parker wants to end separate ops ASAP.

No matter what we will have a joint contract before seniority integration with American. Nicolau will be implemented and used for the APA/usair integration.

So yes you east pilots may get a couple more months but that will come to an end soon. Hope you all get to where you want to be because all that movement will come to a grinding halt.

 

[nic4us]

So it's your opinion that a ratified MOU will complete the TA requirements and implement the NIC...

The MOU will most likely be voted upon late Jan/early Feb... If it passes, as I suspect it will, you contend that the NIC will be implemented at that time...

So... There will not be a permanent bid for April. Most likely the next one will come out next month effective in May. Is it your belief that the West pilots will be able to bid into the East positions? All the Captain slots that will be open due to retirements can be filled by West pilots? All your east coast commuters will be able to bid into East bases and all your
furloughed pilots will get recalled? Just asking... If the MOU passes, is this the outcome you expect to see next month on the next East permanent bid??

Depending on the time frame of the MOU passing, and it's proximitety to an actual merger, pretty much plan on no permanent bids and the existing ones canceled.

 

[nic4us]

Hope you all get to where you want to be because all that movement will come to a grinding halt.

Just like the movement at AWA when we bought AAA.

Probably even more so cause the bases that will get closed are a heck of a lot bigger than PIT, LAS, LGA and BOS.

 

[nevergiveup]

Just like the movement at AWA when we bought AAA.

Probably even more so cause the bases that will get closed are a heck of a lot bigger than PIT, LAS, LGA and BOS.

Are you on the BOD or a major stock holder?

 

[Metroyet]

So it's your opinion that a ratified MOU will complete the TA requirements and implement the NIC...

The MOU will most likely be voted upon late Jan/early Feb... If it passes, as I suspect it will, you contend that the NIC will be implemented at that time...

So... There will not be a permanent bid for April. Most likely the next one will come out next month effective in May. Is it your belief that the West pilots will be able to bid into the East positions? All the Captain slots that will be open due to retirements can be filled by West pilots? All your east coast commuters will be able to bid into East bases and all your furloughed pilots will get recalled? Just asking... If the MOU passes, is this the outcome you expect to see next month on the next East permanent bid??

I don't know WHEN that will happen, just that it WILL happen. Us air died 7 years ago. Time to understand that.

 

[nevergiveup]

I don't know WHEN that will happen, just that it WILL happen. Us air died 7 years ago. Time to understand that.

2033

 

[fatherabraham]

2033

NGU,

Per your handle........overly optimistic

FA

 

[Bill Brasky]

2033

Is that they year Hell freezes over?

 

[usabusdriver]

You were vested in the 7 percent the company matched.

[quote name=]
After-Tax Employee Contributions Company Matching Contributions
— Contribute 1% to 50% of eligible compensation on an after tax basis (subject to annual IRS limits on total annual additions to the Plan)
— Discretionary matching contribution that is 50% of employee contributions (salary deferrals) up to 6% of eligible compensation
— Eligible for matching contributions on applicable salary deferrals the first of the month following 1 year of Active Service
Company Non-elective Discretionary Contributions Vesting Schedule
— Beginning 1/1/05, 7% of eligible compensation (subject to annual IRS limits on total annual additions to the Plan)
— Salary deferrals, catch-up contributions, after-tax contributions, qualified rollovers into the Plan – 100% vested immediately
​

[/quote]


Hey Claxon,

So have you figured it out yet?

The west pilots got 7% Company Non-elective contribution and a Company Match of 50% up to 6%.

If a pilot made a 6% contribution he or she got a 10% Company contribution.

So the only west pilots who received any benefit from the new 10% Company contribution are those who did not put at least 6% into their 401k. ( I would assume a very small number of pilots )

You may admit your error. 😛