Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

A: To be clear, the USAPA BPR has reviewed the MOU, but the USAPA pilots, like the APA pilots, have not and cannot review the MOU until USAPA and APA are granted relief from certain provisions of the NDA.

The MOU will act as a brand-new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) for the USAPA pilots, which is why they will have an opportunity to vote on it. However, for APA-represented pilots, the MOU only amends the new CBA, as opposed to creating a whole new agreement.

The opinion of the APA. The soon to be new bargaining agent of the US Airways pilots. The MOU constitutes a new collective bargaining agreement or in other words a single agreement. That single agreement fulfilling the final step in pilot integration and the Nicolau implementation.

If it is the opinion of the new union that an MOU implements the Nicolau list what list do you east pilots think that the new union will present to the arbitrator?

 

[traderjake]

Do not make me a hypocrite. Ask, I will do my very best to provide information for you.

Who do you work for and what do you do?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

The opinion of the APA. The soon to be new bargaining agent of the US Airways pilots. The MOU constitutes a new collective bargaining agreement or in other words a single agreement. That single agreement fulfilling the final step in pilot integration and the Nicolau implementation.

If it is the opinion of the new union that an MOU implements the Nicolau list what list do you east pilots think that the new union will present to the arbitrator?

I don't buy your premise on any level. But just for fun, I will entertain it. The very act of ratifying the MOU modifies the methodology of how the list (s) are combined. At the instant of ratification by USAPA pilots, LOA 96, at least the seniority portion, becomes null and void. You cannot at one instant get a new methodology, and yet crow the old one still rules. Better vote "no" on the MOU. It is the bitter end of our old ALPA dysfunction.Greeter

 

[Phoenix]

I don't buy your premise on any level. But just for fun, I will entertain it. The very act of ratifying the MOU modifies the methodology of how the list (s) are combined. At the instant of ratification by USAPA pilots, LOA 96, at least the seniority portion, becomes null and void. You cannot at one instant get a new methodology, and yet crow the old one still rules. Better vote "no" on the MOU. It is the bitter end of our old ALPA dysfunction.Greeter

All loads nead to Ric. X 1,000.

 

[cleardirect]

I don't buy your premise on any level. But just for fun, I will entertain it. The very act of ratifying the MOU modifies the methodology of how the list (s) are combined. At the instant of ratification by USAPA pilots, LOA 96, at least the seniority portion, becomes null and void. You cannot at one instant get a new methodology, and yet crow the old one still rules. Better vote "no" on the MOU. It is the bitter end of our old ALPA dysfunction.Greeter

Incorrect. It does not modify the methodology.

The instant the MOU is ratified it implements the arbitration.

The T/A states that when the three item happen it completes the implementation period.

Vote no on the MOU if you like. But here is what the BPR must have struggled with for three days.

Q: When does the MOU become effective for APA and USAPA?

A: The MOU does not become effective for APA unless and until a merger is approved as a part of a plan of reorganization (POR). Assuming the USAPA pilots ratify the MOU, it will similarly become effective for them when a merger is approved as a part of a plan of reorganization. However, if the USAPA pilots reject the MOU, it will not apply to USAPA-represented pilots.

So you can vote yes for the MOU and get the pay raise and whatever other benefits are in the MOU and implement the Nicolau list.

Or vote down the MOU, wait for the APA to negotiate a joint contract for the Us Airways pilots perhaps 12-18 months after POR and then have the APA submit the Nicolau list for arbitration as the only list for US Airways pilots.

Are you beginning to see that all roads lead to the Nicolau?

Get paid now and use the Nicolau or wait, don't get paid and use the Nicolau.

What do you think the guys close to retirement are going to do? How about the guys that are already captains? What have they got to gain from waiting 12-18 months? $125-$165. $40 per hour and 10 more days vacation. $40,000 a year plus a singing bonus. Why, so a few more angry east pilots can make it to the left seat?

 

[Phoenix]

All loads nead to Ric. X 1,000.

Take one down, 999 to go.

 

[mrbreeze]

So you can vote yes for the MOU and get the pay raise and whatever other benefits are in the MOU and implement the Nicolau list.

Or vote down the MOU, wait for the APA to negotiate a joint contract for the Us Airways pilots perhaps 12-18 months after POR and then have the APA submit the Nicolau list for arbitration as the only list for US Airways pilots.

Are you beginning to see that all roads lead to the Nicolau?

This is quite a fantasy you have dreamed up here, Clear.

The MOU will not address the SLI. The SLI will go through a process of negotiations between USAPA and APA. If that fails to produce a SLI, it will go through M/B arbitration.

USAPA and APA can negotiate any reasonable list that they like, just as the M/B arbitrators can put the SL together any way they see fit.

These are the facts and anything beyond the facts is just your speculation.

Your dreamed up argument is weak at best.
breeze

 

[Crzipilot]

Couldn't the MOU revise the terms of the T/A for the purpose of clearing the east/west obstacles to a merger? Hmmmm....Simple wording as, Upon ratification of this MOU, LOA XX, XX, XX, XX are null and void....

 

[flyingskier]

Incorrect. It does not modify the methodology.

The instant the MOU is ratified it implements the arbitration.

The T/A states that when the three item happen it completes the implementation period.

Vote no on the MOU if you like. But here is what the BPR must have struggled with for three days.




So you can vote yes for the MOU and get the pay raise and whatever other benefits are in the MOU and implement the Nicolau list.

Or vote down the MOU, wait for the APA to negotiate a joint contract for the Us Airways pilots perhaps 12-18 months after POR and then have the APA submit the Nicolau list for arbitration as the only list for US Airways pilots.

Are you beginning to see that all roads lead to the Nicolau?

Get paid now and use the Nicolau or wait, don't get paid and use the Nicolau.

What do you think the guys close to retirement are going to do? How about the guys that are already captains? What have they got to gain from waiting 12-18 months? $125-$165. $40 per hour and 10 more days vacation. $40,000 a year plus a singing bonus. Why, so a few more angry east pilots can make it to the left seat?

You're dreaming Clear. Ratification of the MOU will not complete the requirements for the Nic. As long as USAPA is your representative, the Nic does not exist! The APA is not required to use the Nic either, nor are they interested in using it. You will have to file a law suit to try to enforce this Nic dream you have. If the MOU passes, I hope you file immediately and put this to rest once and for all. Be prepared to be disappointed.

Skier

 

[prechilill]

Yes. World War 2 is the past, 911 is the past and many more examples. Should we forgive the actions of those in the past?

Yes. Anger tears you up and makes you crazy... Oh wait...

 

[A320 Driver]

The opinion of the APA. The soon to be new bargaining agent of the US Airways pilots. The MOU constitutes a new collective bargaining agreement or in other words a single agreement. That single agreement fulfilling the final step in pilot integration and the Nicolau implementation.
If it is the opinion of the new union that an MOU implements the Nicolau list what list do you east pilots think that the new union will present to the arbitrator?

"The opinion of the APA"

Kind of says it all, doesn't it?

Driver...

 

[cleardirect]

"The opinion of the APA"

Kind of says it all, doesn't it?

Driver...

Sort of like the opinion of usapa?

 

[cleardirect]

This is quite a fantasy you have dreamed up here, Clear.

The MOU will not address the SLI. The SLI will go through a process of negotiations between USAPA and APA. If that fails to produce a SLI, it will go through M/B arbitration.

USAPA and APA can negotiate any reasonable list that they like, just as the M/B arbitrators can put the SL together any way they see fit.

These are the facts and anything beyond the facts is just your speculation.

Your dreamed up argument is weak at best.
breeze

I think you are correct. The MOU will not address seniority.


Seniority was addressed in the T/A. A ratified MOU is a new contract voted on by the US Airways pilots. Voted separately from the American pilots. The MOU completes the requirements of the T/A and implements the Nicolau.

Step one!

Step two you are partly correct. The APA, the only union that will be representing US Airways pilots will Arbitrate a reasonable seniority list using the APA list and the now ratified and implemented Nicolau list.

The process is defined by the term sheet. Go read it. The timelines are laid out in that document.

The APA will be the new bargaining agent before seniority is complete. The APA wants nothing to do with the liability or the use of a DOH list. We will have a joint contract and an implemented list before we get to arbitration.

 

[cleardirect]

Couldn't the MOU revise the terms of the T/A for the purpose of clearing the east/west obstacles to a merger? Hmmmm....Simple wording as, Upon ratification of this MOU, LOA XX, XX, XX, XX are null and void....

The obstacle to the merger was seniority.

Why would the company agree to an MOU that null and voids and continues the seniority fight? Parker wants to put an end to the separate ops and a ratified contract implements the Nicolau and completes the merger between east and west.

Semantics but a new contract supersedes previous contract not voids them.

In this case an MOU completes the requirements. The MOU/term sheet then defines the next merger policy as M/B. with a ratified contract and a completed east west merger that means Nicolau and the APA list.

If there was a way to avoid the Nicolau in the MOU why did. It take 3 days for the BPR to vote to send it out?

They were stuck and finally realized all roads lead to the Nicolau.

Parker wants the east west merger done and combined. He is not going to do this merger and leave the biggest obstacle unfinished.

 

[Zone5]

They'll be asking for our seniority list, not a list of our DOHs.

By the way, the contract says what the seniority list is and I think they will have a copy of our contract.

LCC does not have a "contract", the West has a contract (DOH) and the East has a contract (DOH), there is no "our contact" and never will be. Did I miss the vote for a JCBA between East and West? When our seniority "lists" are requested "they" will be submitted and the "powers that be" will make of them as the "process" called for in the MOU outlines. Will MB in the end make the call? Probably.


seajay