Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nevergiveup]

Yes. This is sooooo much better.

youth!

 

[A320 Driver]

Your spin!What the CLT REPS do is represent a conviction different from yours, you call it "ANGER" , a term to justify "YOUR" interpretation of a disagreement of your expectations!

I'm glad you disagree with me. This tells me I am on the right track.

Thanks

Driver...

 

[dca319]

I'm glad you disagree with me. This tells me I am on the right track.

Thanks

Driver...

The only greater validation would come from Claxon or luv.

 

[Piedmont1984]

It's not about one meeting, one issue or one vote. It is about a pattern of representation that only benefits one part of our pilot group. You will be lucky if you ever see the minutes. More likely, you will see an interpretation of what went on based on who's telling it. It's politics, it's ugly and it needs to be over.

Driver...

There's another way to view this pattern you speak of. The CLT reps have made noise, but in the end their final position, or vote record, is more moderate. The MOU was voted 11-0. Some would have them recalled because they don't like to see the way sausages are made. I say the CLT reps have simply been the canary in the coal mine.

If a more pro Hummel group had been the CLT BPR reps these past few weeks, would we have gotten a different and possibly inferior version of this MOU? Aren't you curious to know?

 

[dca319]

And there you have it. From DC -

We both had considerable reservations with the potential outcome for several reasons if this resolution was passed. While we both agree with the wording and reasoning of the first four ‘Whereas” statements, we find difficulty with acceptance of the “Therefore be it resolved” paragraph. We absolutely support the need for, “BPR members …… adequately educating the pilots they represent as to how they arrived at their decision to recommend approval of the MOU” from the last “Whereas.” However, there are no official notes or minutes taken during any closed session meetings of the BPR. Let us repeat that. There are no Official notes or Minutes taken during any closed session meetings of the BPR.

In our view, to allow this resolution to pass as written would open the door for open season on not only the 11 different perspectives of the Board as to what did or did not transpire based on our recollections and personal notes, but additionally the opinions of all four Officers, the four NAC members, our legal counsel, and several Committee Chairs who had access to those closed door meetings. This resolution contained no provisions for oversight as to what could or could not be said if passed. Transparency and communication are a must for you and your union, but the DCA pilots may not be fully aware of the political aspects related to the request to open the meetings. Philadelphia is about to elect three representatives for a term beginning April 1, and Charlotte is in the midst of an election in reverse, to recall their representatives. This looked like a vehicle for political spin to develop in front of the Company and the APA. We have no desire or intention of forgetting our goal to secure a contract for all of us with better working conditions, compensation and quality of life. Showing weakness in the face of a possible merger and fighting each other does not get us there. If and when the MOU is released for review it will stand or fall on its own merits. We will educate you fully and see no place for politics or interference in other base elections as needed in the factual analysis we all will conduct.

 

[Piedmont1984]

In that case I'll settle for the 'unofficial notes'. You know, the ones required to satisfy the lawyers. I'm sure there is some record of what went on.

I suppose the CLT reps could always do what the PHL reps did under ALPA. Defy the HQ. Wait for the NDA to expire and give their version of the MOU proceedings regardless of what HQ has to say about closed sessions.

Obviously, the DCA letter tells me they don't want us to see how sausages are made.

 

[nevergiveup]

In that case I'll settle for the 'unofficial notes'. You know, the ones required to satisfy the lawyers. I'm sure there is some record of what went on.

I suppose the CLT reps could always do what the PHL reps did under ALPA. Defy the HQ. Wait for the NDA to expire and give their version of the MOU proceedings regardless of what HQ has to say about closed sessions.

Obviously, the DCA letter tells me they don't want us to see how sausages are made.

The hogs are placed on I-95 in front of New Jersey to Florida bound SUVs.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

And there you have it. From DC -

We both had considerable reservations with the potential outcome for several reasons if this resolution was passed. While we both agree with the wording and reasoning of the first four 'Whereas" statements, we find difficulty with acceptance of the "Therefore be it resolved" paragraph. We absolutely support the need for, "BPR members …… adequately educating the pilots they represent as to how they arrived at their decision to recommend approval of the MOU" from the last "Whereas." However, there are no official notes or minutes taken during any closed session meetings of the BPR. Let us repeat that. There are no Official notes or Minutes taken during any closed session meetings of the BPR.

In our view, to allow this resolution to pass as written would open the door for open season on not only the 11 different perspectives of the Board as to what did or did not transpire based on our recollections and personal notes, but additionally the opinions of all four Officers, the four NAC members, our legal counsel, and several Committee Chairs who had access to those closed door meetings. This resolution contained no provisions for oversight as to what could or could not be said if passed. Transparency and communication are a must for you and your union, but the DCA pilots may not be fully aware of the political aspects related to the request to open the meetings. Philadelphia is about to elect three representatives for a term beginning April 1, and Charlotte is in the midst of an election in reverse, to recall their representatives. This looked like a vehicle for political spin to develop in front of the Company and the APA. We have no desire or intention of forgetting our goal to secure a contract for all of us with better working conditions, compensation and quality of life. Showing weakness in the face of a possible merger and fighting each other does not get us there. If and when the MOU is released for review it will stand or fall on its own merits. We will educate you fully and see no place for politics or interference in other base elections as needed in the factual analysis we all will conduct.

"Transparency and communication are a must for you and your union, but the DCA pilots may not be fully aware " BULLSHIT!

 

[cleardirect]

At least the APA has their pension and $100k signing bonus.

Sure and if the CLT reps had only been stronger, tougher, harder negotiators whatever. You think we could have gotten that too?

Sometimes like LOA93 the situation defines the terms. In this case usapa (east pilots) destroyed unity, demanded unobtainable goals and completely missed the negotiating environment.

Could we have gotten more? Maybe. Did the CLT reps do anything to get us more? Doubtful. Are the CLT reps playing political games to save their positions? Absolutely! Does threatening to violate the NDA place the CLT reps in a bad spot? For sure.

 

[Black Swan]

USAPA Secretary Treasurer Update to the Charlotte Pilots: January 11, 2013

The USAPA Secretary Treasurer has received recall petitions for Domicile Chairman Bill McKee, Vice Chairman Steve Crimi, and Vice Chairman DeWitt Ingram. After review of these petitions, the requirements of the USAPA Constitution and By-Laws Article IV, Section 7 have been met. The Ballot Certification Committee has been instructed to begin the Official Balloting of the Members of the Charlotte Domicile as soon feasible.

Rob Streble
Secretary-Treasurer

Here is your chance to get on the Chip Munn bandwagon. Surprised the recall guys let him have his name on any of it, because that is more than an excuse to vote 180 degrees opposite.

 

[3dtv]

"Transparency and communication are a must for you and your union, but the DCA pilots may not be fully aware " BULLSHIT!

Not even close. "You can't handle the truth".

 

[Black Swan]

The pilots are going to get the information on the MOU. What Glynn and the CLT reps want is to get out the "information" read spin on WHY they voted the way they did. Nothing but CYA and political cover.

Let the NAC explain the MOU. Leave the spin out of it.

When the NDA is lifted we will get a copy and we can all read it for ourselves. Or do you think that the pilots are to stupid to read and understand English and must have their hand held on how the CLT reps want you to vote?

Bill Glynn does a tremendous job getting information out. We will read what we want Clear. At least Bill doesn't produce those stupid Leonidas type clips.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Sure and if the CLT reps had only been stronger, tougher, harder negotiators whatever. You think we could have gotten that too?

Sometimes like LOA93 the situation defines the terms. In this case usapa (east pilots) destroyed unity, demanded unobtainable goals and completely missed the negotiating environment.

Could we have gotten more? Maybe. Did the CLT reps do anything to get us more? Doubtful. Are the CLT reps playing political games to save their positions? Absolutely! Does threatening to violate the NDA place the CLT reps in a bad spot? For sure.

You mean just like AMERICA WEST was the only airline that would hire you, FOR SURE!

 

[cleardirect]

The same must have applied to eastus1 for some of his rants. Either that or he is in a padded cell somewhere.

Yep! Amazing East us tells someone to "blow a stray dog" and gets nothing.

I guess that means there are no rules. The gloves are off and anything goes.

Zero moderation of this board.

 

[cleardirect]

I'd sure like to know what happened during those closed sessions before I vote to recall or not. Were any changes made to the MOU (the more recent one) at the insistance of some of the reps? Was Hummel's original version of the MOU less attractive?

Seems to me the hard work has been done at this stage. Perhaps the recall vote should be postponed until the NDA veil has been lifted. Also, perhaps we should petition to have the minutes of those closed BPR sessions made available to the pilots.

The minutes will not tell you anything. Unless it is a transcript the only thing the minutes will say is discussion took place just like the updates.