Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Bill Brasky]

No need to cry.

You are completely missing the point.

I have no doubt, if left to there own scabduggery, usapa will attempt to forward a DOH list.

Problem for usapa is they do not have a DFR to the majority, they have a DFR to every pilot in the class and craft they represent, including those non-members who refuse to join scab unions. Also, they are not working in a vacuum. A negotiation is going to take place. Had any lucky "negotiating" a change to the accepted list yet?

Bottom line is uscaba will get shut down on their fantasy, and the West will not have to sue. However, I do predict the West might have to file something just to ensure the nail is hammered into the uscaba coffin.

And on your "windfall" comment. I got "powerful evidence of a fair outcome", what do you have other than two weeks vacation and a Shiite pay rate? Nothing, that is what. So, get back to us when you quit whining about the fact that you are lucky to have had continued employment after you got recalled in 2005.

The problem with all of your whining is that USAPA is the ONLY recognized representative of the pilots at US Airways. No one else. They are bound to represent THEIR majority. If you're gonna sue someone, looks like you'd better take it up with the folks that the Nic belongs to, ALPA.

No emotions here, only facts. Like it or not, you're not going to be able to cash that lottery ticket. Scott told you that.

 

[cactusboy53]

That was not the question. Please read before attemping to respond. ALPO gave you profit sharing, or do you not remember?

Look Cupcake;
You're gonna have to read all the posts if you want to joust. In the post just above the one that you responded to I wrote the following:

"The pilots of the smaller company (while making a better wage and MUCH better contract conditions) do get the shared profit sharing but no $70 Million Payout or stock options."

Carry on....because we know you will.

 

[cactusboy53]

The problem with all of your whining is that USAPA is the ONLY recognized representative of the pilots at US Airways. No one else. They are bound to represent THEIR majority. If you're gonna sue someone, looks like you'd better take it up with the folks that the Nic belongs to, ALPA.

No emotions here, only facts. Like it or not, you're not going to be able to cash that lottery ticket. Scott told you that.

So, you are stating that by changing unions (or even union names) a collective bargaining agent may pick and choose which portions of a contract, side letter or arbitration(s) they can observe?

Please give us an example where this is legal precedent of facts (other than USAPA, of course), and show your work of facts (not because you said so). You are right: USAPA must represent all US Airways pilots. Stating that DOH is the gold standard NOW after being voted in is NOT fairly representing all pilots.

Using the term "lottery ticket" in the context of a rational argument smacks more of an emotional rant, IMHO.

Readers: Is Billy's post emotion flavored opinion or a legal & factual argument? You decide.

CB

 

[nic4us]

The problem with all of your whining is that USAPA is the ONLY recognized representative of the pilots at US Airways. No one else. They are bound to represent THEIR majority. If you're gonna sue someone, looks like you'd better take it up with the folks that the Nic belongs to, ALPA.

No emotions here, only facts. Like it or not, you're not going to be able to cash that lottery ticket. Scott told you that.

I do not have a lottery ticket to cash, but if you want to take Kirby's advice, why the LOA93 grievance he said had "what is a number very close to zero", in a flippant moment of meaning what is no way in he!!..

No one has contested that uscaba is the recognized bargaining agent. However, you really must be a simpleton, because this is the third time you have claimed usapa has a DFR to a majority. Simply false. The DFR is owed to ALL. Once more, ALL entered into a binding agreement.

ALPA does not own the Nic, you and I do. So, I am suing you through your scab agent.

Get it yet?

 

[Portly Dorman]

Funny, considering you have lost way more than that over the course of you career, You have NEVER made industry wages, but than again I guess you could not get hired anywhere else.

Did you see any $$ from the pre-BK rates?? '99 hire...not to much. The west had a far better work rules than the east. I did okay for myself. And you?? Having to live in PHX, a dead city with declining real estate, must be tuff on you.

 

[Phoenix]

.

BTW, Easties are flying mainline jets for commuter wages since what 2004? When did LOA93 come into effect?

Which brings up two interesting questions:

-- why does DUI have an unlimited supply of applications?
-- and why is there such unbridled AA pilot enthusiasm that DUI should be the head cheese?

 

[Phoenix]

So, you are stating that by changing unions (or even union names) a collective bargaining agent may pick and choose which portions of a contract, side letter or arbitration(s) they can observe?

Please give us an example where this is legal precedent of facts (other than USAPA, of course), and show your work of facts (not because you said so). You are right: USAPA must represent all US Airways pilots. Stating that DOH is the gold standard NOW after being voted in is NOT fairly representing all pilots.

Using the term "lottery ticket" in the context of a rational argument smacks more of an emotional rant, IMHO.

Readers: Is Billy's post emotion flavored opinion or a legal & factual argument? You decide.

CB

Change union name? Straw man.

 

[Bill Brasky]

So, you are stating that by changing unions (or even union names) a collective bargaining agent may pick and choose which portions of a contract, side letter or arbitration(s) they can observe?

Please give us an example where this is legal precedent of facts (other than USAPA, of course), and show your work of facts (not because you said so). You are right: USAPA must represent all US Airways pilots. Stating that DOH is the gold standard NOW after being voted in is NOT fairly representing all pilots.

Using the term "lottery ticket" in the context of a rational argument smacks more of an emotional rant, IMHO.

Readers: Is Billy's post emotion flavored opinion or a legal & factual argument? You decide.

CB

No emotion here, just facts. USAPA inherited all ratified contracts and side letters, not bargaining positions. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals already told you, and Judge Silver restated, that USAPA is free to negotiate on their terms. No emotion there. Sorry if you can't handle the truth. The term "lottery ticket" wasn't made by me or any other East pilot, but by the present company President, the one that came from YOUR airline premerger. Again, no emotions there, at least from me.

Readers: who here has the more emotional, least factual argument? CB53 and his gang of malcontents that can't understand or believe what they keep getting told, or everyone else? You decide.

 

[luvthe9]

You are the new Move2...no doubt about it.

Thank you, Move2 is now dca319..

 

[luvthe9]

Did you see any $$ from the pre-BK rates?? '99 hire...not to much. The west had a far better work rules than the east. I did okay for myself. And you?? Having to live in PHX, a dead city with declining real estate, must be tuff on you.

You were not even in existance when I got hired here son, sorry don't live in PHX.

 

[Bill Brasky]

I do not have a lottery ticket to cash, but if you want to take Kirby's advice, why the LOA93 grievance he said had "what is a number very close to zero", in a flippant moment of meaning what is no way in he!!..

No one has contested that uscaba is the recognized bargaining agent. However, you really must be a simpleton, because this is the third time you have claimed usapa has a DFR to a majority. Simply false. The DFR is owed to ALL. Once more, ALL entered into a binding agreement.

ALPA does not own the Nic, you and I do. So, I am suing you through your scab agent.

Get it yet?

You're an idiot. If there are two opposing views, USAPA must represent the majority opinion. Why do you think we vote, simpleton?

Go ahead and sue. It's your cash. And if USAPA presents anything pother than what the C&BL says, and the majority approves of, namely DOH, I'll sue. So just get over yourself. You guys really "effed" this up for yourselves, just like your ALPA lawyer told you were going to do. Now you have to live with it.

And, I still haven't seen a logical argument not to vote "for" the MOU. I trust that my elected representatives are telling me the truth and did the best they could. I haven't seen any non-emotional arguments to change my opinion.

 

[Pi brat]

Due to the separate ops that the east AFO has kept going, losing the average east Captain about $40-50k a year, I guess I will lose out.

Wait a minute. Cleardirect said that Diorio was only interested in the senior east guys. Could you guys get on the same script?

 

[dca319]

Thank you, Move2 is now dca319..

That's not what 320 posted. It sounds like you've taken that role yourself Courtney.

 

[dca319]

You're an idiot. If there are two opposing views, USAPA must represent the majority opinion.

That's not exactly correct Bill. A union may not harm the minority either and their is precedence. A good analogy is suffrage - the majority didn't want women or blacks to vote, right? Just because the majority wants something doesn't mean its legal by any means. And Silver stated that USAPA was allowed to move off the Nicolau but only with a LUP. Without a LUP, we open ourselves up to an unquestionably ripe DFR. I believe she used "pain" in their somewhere but you get the gist.

 

[Pi brat]

That's not exactly correct Bill. A union may not harm the minority either and their is precedence. A good analogy is suffrage - the majority didn't want women or blacks to vote, right? Just because the majority wants something doesn't mean its legal by any means. And Silver stated that USAPA was allowed to move off the Nicolau but only with a LUP. Without a LUP, we open ourselves up to an unquestionably ripe DFR. I believe she used "pain" in their somewhere but you get the gist.

Real easties know what that LUP is.