Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

-- why does DUI have an unlimited supply of applications?
-- and why is there such unbridled AA pilot enthusiasm that DUI should be the head cheese?

-- because there an unlimited supply of pilots who want our jobs?
-- because Parker offered AA pilots more bread?

 

[cactusboy53]

No emotion here, just facts. USAPA inherited all ratified contracts and side letters, not bargaining positions. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals already told you, and Judge Silver restated, that USAPA is free to negotiate on their terms. No emotion there. Sorry if you can't handle the truth. The term "lottery ticket" wasn't made by me or any other East pilot, but by the present company President, the one that came from YOUR airline premerger. Again, no emotions there, at least from me.

Readers: who here has the more emotional, least factual argument? CB53 and his gang of malcontents that can't understand or believe what they keep getting told, or everyone else? You decide.

OK. Not one, but three claims of "no emotions here" from Billy, along with the ever popular partial regurgitation of the Ninth's & Judge Silver's findings that he and his kin seem more than pleased to quote.

Readers & Lurkers: If you are interested in reading the complete court findings, you can find them at www.cactuspilot.com listed under legal documents. It would seem that Billy has either not read the complete works or has conveniently forgotten some of the other important portions. Phrases like "dangerous ground" and "unquestionably ripe" really do help put context to the court findings.

 

[cactusboy53]

Change union name? Straw man.

A jury took 90 minutes to say you are wrong. Opposite of Straw man? I would guess this dude....

 

[nic4us]

You're an idiot. If there are two opposing views, USAPA must represent the majority opinion. Why do you think we vote, simpleton?

Okay, I guess we have to make it four times, cause you are just too dense.

We do not have a vote on arbitration results. Never have, never will.

Opposing views do not release a union of it's DFR to all, and that is not subject to vote.

Sorry, the little union busting lawyer failed to mention these facts, but, had you done any research or even watched/read anything from ALPA or the West during the representational election, you would be aware of these fact, and that by electing uscaba, the east removed their only means of concessions on the Nic.

Too bad really.

Maybe you can reply again so we can make it 5 times you have proven your ignorance.

 

[cleardirect]

Not only can they, but they are going to. Just because you may have a case doesn't mean you'll win it. Since USAPA is obligated to represent the best interst of the MAJORITY of it's members, and APA will have the same obligation, your DFR case is over. Pay a lawyer if you want, it's your cash. Oh, and the defense will be using OUR cash, yours included.

Cry all you want. You guys are going to have to pay your dues, just like everyone else.

Here is where you all go wrong. A union does not have an obligation to represent the majority. A union has a duty to represent ALL members equally.

That is what you demanded when you wanted usapa that is the obligation a union has when it collects dues. Now if usapa wants to only represent the majority then they should not collect any money or represent the minority.

But please have the usapa lawyer tell the court they only represent the majority. The judge and jury will love to hear that.

Unless you really believe that and the APA will treat the east minority just fine.

 

[cleardirect]

East, how are you going to fix your problem absent AA/APA?

East has problems that can never be fixed by anyone or anything.

 

[EastUS1]

East has problems that can never be fixed by anyone or anything.

So....No chance of ever getting a "Dire Wolf" or even an "Integrity Matters" T-shirt then...? Aww....Dang it! 😉

 

[EastUS1]

-- why does DUI have an unlimited supply of applications?
-- and why is there such unbridled AA pilot enthusiasm that DUI should be the head cheese?

Umm.....Because P.T. Barnum was right?

 

[Beancounter]

No emotion here, just facts. USAPA inherited all ratified contracts and side letters, not bargaining positions. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals already told you, and Judge Silver restated, that USAPA is free to negotiate on their terms. No emotion there. Sorry if you can't handle the truth. The term "lottery ticket" wasn't made by me or any other East pilot, but by the present company President, the one that came from YOUR airline premerger. Again, no emotions there, at least from me.

Readers: who here has the more emotional, least factual argument? CB53 and his gang of malcontents that can't understand or believe what they keep getting told, or everyone else? You decide.

You're pulling one small part out of it and reading it to mean what you want. Yes you're free to negotiate something else in terms of seniority, but.....( and here it is) you'll be in danger of an unquestionably ripe DFR. Does that need to be repeated? How many times? You can present a list that places all the east pilots below the west and you'll be fine, but the Nic is the measuring stick and it's the best you can get. Do you understand why it's not really dead? You don't do you. Oh well, guess you'll just have to find out. Have a good night.

Bean

 

[nevergiveup]

Look Cupcake;
You're gonna have to read all the posts if you want to joust. In the post just above the one that you responded to I wrote the following:

"The pilots of the smaller company (while making a better wage and MUCH better contract conditions) do get the shared profit sharing but no $70 Million Payout or stock options."

Carry on....because we know you will.

Cupcake?.......call me!

 

[nevergiveup]

I posted the question, "Do the APA pilots acquire 13.5% of APA or 13.5% of the new combined airline after the merger. I believe cactusboy was reading something else. Anyone have a good answer? I know they get 13.5 merger or no merger. Should they get a big bonus if we merge?

 

[Portly Dorman]

So....No chance of ever getting a "Dire Wolf" or even an "Integrity Matters" T-shirt then...? Aww....Dang it! 😉

They would go well with the yellow lanyards you were so proud of. Have Courtney make a sunglasses holder for you.

 

[USA320Pilot]

CLT Recall Update #4

TIME TO “ROCK THE BOAT”

We sit on the crest of a potential merger, which will allow this pilot group the opportunity to move forward from the concessions, stagnation, frustrations and the attacks on our profession we have experienced for over a decade. So now, more than ever, it is time to “Rock the Boat” ? Lets consider why ........

When Yes means NO?
On 1/4/13 the BPR, including our CLT Reps, voted YES to send the MOU to the US Airways pilots for their ratification with a unanimous recommendation for approval. Our Reps propagated that their fortitude helped broker retro pay. Yet now it appears they will be voting NO (Steve Crimi 01/22 email “You can expect that most if not all of the 5 (CLT/2PHL) will vote personally against the MOU”.)
This is a serious “Breach of Faith” by our CLT Reps to step back from their commitment to the unanimous recommendation. Even the appearance of reneging makes future negotiations more difficult as those we are negotiating with will justifiably question our leaderships ability to hold up their end of the deal. This was reinforced in a letter to the BPR from our PN, Roland Wilder. We have yet to see any public statement from any of our Reps supporting their YES vote. Is this leadership?

Facts or fiction?
Unable to defend a record of achievements, they go to the old and torn playbook, making completely fictitious statements in their updates, designed to illicit fear and anger, with buzz words such as ALPA ,West and Nic, while trying to divide Captains and First Officers. For the record we spoke to all line pilots, irrespective of seat, and respected those who did not want to discuss the recall. The criticism and deflection to implicate the Officers, who were simply doing their job in insuring that all committee members abide by the USAPA Constitution, is once again indicative of their divisive style of leadership. Keep in mind Bill McKee was an ALPA Rep for as long as he has been a USAPA Rep. It is not the name but the person that sets the standard for leadership.

What are the consequences?
The consequences of this type of leadership are LOA 93, injunctions, stagnation and frustration. Success will remain elusive so long as we have leadership that exercises poor judgment, disrespects, distorts and divides their own team rather than seek consensus and unity to move our career and profession forward.

What leadership should we expect?
The CLT Reps work for us, the line pilot. We need leadership that exhibits integrity, consensus, unity, respect, fairness, humility, an open mind, act ethically, are assertive rather than aggressive, represent absent personal agendas and able to make the difficult decisions with the character to stand by them.

Why you should vote to recall all 3 Reps?
Our Constitution provides certain language addressing recalls. In the event a recall is only successful on 1 or 2 of the Reps, the remaining Rep/s will appoint a DDR. To effect change and avoid the status quo in our leadership please vote to recall ALL 3 Reps.

Our future?
With a brighter future on the horizon we leave you with this question. Is this the leadership that will work in harmony, unity, ethically and honorably when making a deal? Despite their hard work, we, together with 400+ line pilots believe their behavior is the antithesis of true leadership and why it is time to “Rock the Boat” for change. For these reasons, please vote yes to recall the CLT Reps. Vote now or change your vote: https://www.BallotPoint.com/USAPA/

Tom McGuirk
CLT AB Capt
Michael Bake
CLT AB F/O​

 

[DCAJet]

When does the voting end?

 

[Bill Brasky]

Here is where you all go wrong. A union does not have an obligation to represent the majority. A union has a duty to represent ALL members equally.

That is what you demanded when you wanted usapa that is the obligation a union has when it collects dues. Now if usapa wants to only represent the majority then they should not collect any money or represent the minority.

But please have the usapa lawyer tell the court they only represent the majority. The judge and jury will love to hear that.

Unless you really believe that and the APA will treat the east minority just fine.

That's fine. You'll STILL lose. What an idiot you keep proving yourself to be. How does the union represent two opposing views? I'll tell you. They represent the MAJORITY view. That's how it's done. You're an idiot if you think that they can support both DOH (as obligated in the C&BLs) and the Nic (as represented by ALPA). Again, you're still stupid and YOU LOSE!

Go ahead, take it to a judge (again).

Just give it up already. We have bigger fish to fry. Nic ain't happening now, ain't gonna happen later.