Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nevergiveup]

Wrong! Where did you guys learn to read?

All it means is that usapa will hold the results of the vote until an announcement.

Damn you guys are your own worst enemy.

First you all scream about wanting to vote on something. The MOU is voted yes by the BPR and you guys scream and demand to see the MOU and vote. usapa sets up road shows right away and sends out information about the MOU.

Now the same guys are screaming and demanding a delay in voting, more time, more information, dirty politics have entered the picture nd you think that after all of that work and effort and time and money spent to educate the pilots because the announcement has not been made an announcement that nobody knows when it will be made kills the MOU.

I would bet a lot of money that if the BPR had held the MOU and not run the road shows and told you we were going to wait to vote until the merger announcement you would have been screaming and demanding their heads for not letting you vote.

One of the excuses for the abortion usapa is because you all demanded more votes. Well here you are. A tough decision voting on an MOU. You have been given 2 weeks to read and get educated about the MOU and the process. That is a normal amount of time to make a decision on a contract. But you all are acting like a bunch of cowards and bitches whining about more time and more information. there will never be enough time or information for you pu$$ies

Stop it! Time to man up and vote. You are all so scared because you made very poor decisions on LOA 93 and electing usapa you don't want to make another decision because you are paralyzed with fear. The problem is by not making a decision you are goin gto end up worse off than voting yes.

This merger is coming. No stopping it. It is time to make a decision. Vote yes for the MOU, gain some improvements or vote no and remain stuck on LOA 93 and no chance for better for the next 1-2 years. Those are your choices, there is no more negotiating if this MOU gets turned down.

Time to grow a pair and do what you have been demanding to do. Vote. No more delays.

Read it again and pay attention to the w-o-r-d-s! Look at what it says and not what you think it means. Why do you think the came out with the side letter. I hope your other posts that are cluttering up the pages are more thoroughly thought out!

 

[EastUS1]

You poor brave fool! Healthy unicorns are supposed to be a pure and unblemished white! Anyone should know better than to just jump onto whatever first comes along and take a purple one! Well...maybe not around here though. 😉

nevergiveup: Perhaps it was a Raven's fan.

I thought so but Barney assured me purple was better, and he even said it in a persuasive video.

He briefed with a pointer in his hand, too.

Your points are well taken gentlemen and serve to demonstrate the ease with which myself and any/all can often miss the seemingly obvious. 😉

On a serious note: I'd strongly suggest that all concerned avoid that same error while evaluating the proposed MOU.

 

[Phoenix]

Wallmartgreeter said it..........

"The only vote that matters closes on Friday."

Everyone explains away their disappointments.

 

[Claxon]

Wrong! Where did you guys learn to read?

All it means is that usapa will hold the results of the vote until an announcement.

Damn you guys are your own worst enemy.

First you all scream about wanting to vote on something. The MOU is voted yes by the BPR and you guys scream and demand to see the MOU and vote. usapa sets up road shows right away and sends out information about the MOU.

Now the same guys are screaming and demanding a delay in voting, more time, more information, dirty politics have entered the picture nd you think that after all of that work and effort and time and money spent to educate the pilots because the announcement has not been made an announcement that nobody knows when it will be made kills the MOU.

I would bet a lot of money that if the BPR had held the MOU and not run the road shows and told you we were going to wait to vote until the merger announcement you would have been screaming and demanding their heads for not letting you vote.

One of the excuses for the abortion usapa is because you all demanded more votes. Well here you are. A tough decision voting on an MOU. You have been given 2 weeks to read and get educated about the MOU and the process. That is a normal amount of time to make a decision on a contract. But you all are acting like a bunch of cowards and bitches whining about more time and more information. there will never be enough time or information for you pu$$ies

Stop it! Time to man up and vote. You are all so scared because you made very poor decisions on LOA 93 and electing usapa you don't want to make another decision because you are paralyzed with fear. The problem is by not making a decision you are goin gto end up worse off than voting yes.

This merger is coming. No stopping it. It is time to make a decision. Vote yes for the MOU, gain some improvements or vote no and remain stuck on LOA 93 and no chance for better for the next 1-2 years. Those are your choices, there is no more negotiating if this MOU gets turned down.

Time to grow a pair and do what you have been demanding to do. Vote. No more delays.

Time to change your pad, and hit the Paxil. Talk about that time of the month....

 

[Claxon]

Everyone explains away their disappointments.

Quite amusing watching Munn take another predictive loss.

 

[algflyr]

The following is an excerpt from the Jan 10, 2013 BPR special telephonic meeting. So where is this report and why haven't the line pilots seen it?? It appears this was required to be done and the info from the report supplied to the pilots... Where is it??


At approximately 2130, the following motion was Moved/Seconded (Crimi/McKee).

Scope Provisions Evaluation

WHEREAS, the USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives recently approved an MOU that is widely anticipated to include amendments to Section 1 (Scope) of the US Airways's pilots' Collective Bargaining Agreement, and

WHEREAS, it is in the best interest of the US Airways's pilots to be provided a comprehensive review of the section 1 provisions prior to their voting to approve or disapprove possible amendments, and

WHEREAS, USAPA has in the past contracted and consulted with Giordano, Halleran & Ciesla, P.C.'s Mergers and Acquisitions ("M&A") Practice Group, who conducted a thorough review of Sections 1©, 1(D), 1(E), 1(F), 1(I), and 1(J) of the East
CBA,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the BPR directs the EVP to contact Giordano, Halleran & Ciesla, P.C.'s for M&A services and consulting and assess the firm's availability to immediately undertake a review of the potential AMR/LCC transaction relative to the scope provisions of our Collective Bargaining Agreement, the valuation of such provisions, and possible triggering events, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED if it is confirmed that the Giordano firm is available, the BPR directs the USAPA Executive Vice President to immediately contract with the firm to undertake a review and evaluation of Section 1 (A), and 1( B) of the East CBA and all of Section 1 of the West CBA in relation to the contemplated transactions, and

BE IT FINALY RESOLVED that if Giordano, Halleran & Ciesla are contracted, the BPR directs that the firm coordinate with and report to the President, Merger Committee Chairman and Grievance Committee Chairman for USAPA.

At approximately 2155, a motion to table was Moved/Seconded (Stein/Dugstad), but failed 5-6 (For - DCA Stein, Dugstad, PHL Weidner, PHX Scherff, Simmons; Against - CLT, PHL Szpyrka, Gillies, PHX Velez).

The question was then called (Gillies/Crimi) and the motion passed 6-3-2 (For CLT, PHL- Szpyrka, Gilles; DCA- Stein, Against PHX; Abstain DCA Dugstad, PHL Weidner)

 

[ON2ALK]

I CANNOT believe what a Mess my old airline is!! When I was at us air 1999-2002 ALPA suck for sure, but was it really worse than this? You guys seem so fearful of making the wrong move you're paralyzed by it. I completely understand being gun shy but are you really going to give up tens of thousands of REAL DOLLARS on the gamble of CoC? CoC hasn't appeared to stop anything with any of the previous mergers why now? You'll end up in court spending millions of dollars, (which the APA won't cover BTW) on a goose chase. You're what 6+ years past the America West merger and are still in court over the seniority list? It's going to be one hell of an expensive gamble to vote no.

The total amount of money Lost on a no vote will be career crushing...on top of a career that has already taken far too many hits. I was never based in CLT so I can't say if they've always been the militant ones....frankly i don't remember too many hard core militants...but bad information seems to stream from CLT. The seniority dispute being exhibit A. There's no way this is going down the way they said it would and this "no" campaign smells a lot like the seniority information. Anyway, I wish all of you peace, and a path out of this bullshit. All the vitriol and wasted energy....it can't be worth it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Everyone explains away their disappointments.

Bazinga! There it is!

 

[cleardirect]

The following is an excerpt from the Jan 10, 2013 BPR special telephonic meeting. So where is this report and why haven't the line pilots seen it?? It appears this was required to be done and the info from the report supplied to the pilots... Where is it??


At approximately 2130, the following motion was Moved/Seconded (Crimi/McKee).

Scope Provisions Evaluation

WHEREAS, the USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives recently approved an MOU that is widely anticipated to include amendments to Section 1 (Scope) of the US Airways's pilots' Collective Bargaining Agreement, and

WHEREAS, it is in the best interest of the US Airways's pilots to be provided a comprehensive review of the section 1 provisions prior to their voting to approve or disapprove possible amendments, and

WHEREAS, USAPA has in the past contracted and consulted with Giordano, Halleran & Ciesla, P.C.'s Mergers and Acquisitions ("M&A") Practice Group, who conducted a thorough review of Sections 1©, 1(D), 1(E), 1(F), 1(I), and 1(J) of the East
CBA,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the BPR directs the EVP to contact Giordano, Halleran & Ciesla, P.C.'s for M&A services and consulting and assess the firm's availability to immediately undertake a review of the potential AMR/LCC transaction relative to the scope provisions of our Collective Bargaining Agreement, the valuation of such provisions, and possible triggering events, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED if it is confirmed that the Giordano firm is available, the BPR directs the USAPA Executive Vice President to immediately contract with the firm to undertake a review and evaluation of Section 1 (A), and 1( B) of the East CBA and all of Section 1 of the West CBA in relation to the contemplated transactions, and

BE IT FINALY RESOLVED that if Giordano, Halleran & Ciesla are contracted, the BPR directs that the firm coordinate with and report to the President, Merger Committee Chairman and Grievance Committee Chairman for USAPA.

At approximately 2155, a motion to table was Moved/Seconded (Stein/Dugstad), but failed 5-6 (For - DCA Stein, Dugstad, PHL Weidner, PHX Scherff, Simmons; Against - CLT, PHL Szpyrka, Gillies, PHX Velez).

The question was then called (Gillies/Crimi) and the motion passed 6-3-2 (For CLT, PHL- Szpyrka, Gilles; DCA- Stein, Against PHX; Abstain DCA Dugstad, PHL Weidner)

Are you saying that usapa has once again FAILED and is not open and transparent with information to the pilots?

What happened to the LAST report that was done on CoC and scope? No one ever saw that report either. I guess they just keep talking to different lawyer until you get the answer you want.

 

[Pi brat]

Enough of this. I'm going to go see a movie that is about a relatively simple problem compared to the pilot issues at US Airways. LINCOLN.

 

[Phoenix]

I CANNOT believe what a Mess my old airline is!! When I was at us air 1999-2002 ALPA suck for sure, but was it really worse than this? You guys seem so fearful of making the wrong move you're paralyzed by it. I completely understand being gun shy but are you really going to give up tens of thousands of REAL DOLLARS on the gamble of CoC? CoC hasn't appeared to stop anything with any of the previous mergers why now? You'll end up in court spending millions of dollars, (which the APA won't cover BTW) on a goose chase. You're what 6+ years past the America West merger and are still in court over the seniority list? It's going to be one hell of an expensive gamble to vote no.

The total amount of money Lost on a no vote will be career crushing...on top of a career that has already taken far too many hits. I was never based in CLT so I can't say if they've always been the militant ones....frankly i don't remember too many hard core militants...but bad information seems to stream from CLT. The seniority dispute being exhibit A. There's no way this is going down the way they said it would and this "no" campaign smells a lot like the seniority information. Anyway, I wish all of you peace, and a path out of this bullshit. All the vitriol and wasted energy....it can't be worth it.

Everyone has an opinion on how to vote, but I fear too many haven't read, much less understood, the MOU ( except for the pay rates--and even they are incorrect).

Two years from now I don't think you will easily find a pilot that will admit voting for it, and worse folks will remember the good days when we atleast flew big planes under LOA93.

 

[cleardirect]

Everyone has an opinion on how to vote, but I fear too many haven't read, much less understood, the MOU ( except for the pay rates--and even they are incorrect).

Two years from now I don't think you will easily find a pilot that will admit voting for it, and worse folks will remember the good days when we atleast flew big planes under LOA93.

How condescending of you. So only the no voters have actually read the whole 16 pages and understand it?

That the poor uneducated unwashed masses that are voting yes it is beyond them to make the proper decision (in your opinion) and vote no.

More fear and airplane envy. It is 26 "big" airplanes. Is that how you measure your self worth? How many seat your plane has? What did you guys be before Piedmont brought those "big" airplanes?

You must be so proud to fly "big" airplanes for commuter wages on LOA 93. Take a look and see how many of you actually get to fly the "big" airplanes and the MAJORITY of you get to watch with airplane envy as they taxi by. A MAJORITY will never fly the "big" airplane with or without a merge.

Dude it is the size of the paycheck not the number of seats that should be important to you and your family. WB flying pulling down the rest of the industry does not pay for college or retirement. Get over yourself.

 

[luvthe9]

Just some final thoughts before the voting deadline regarding the MOU. It appears to me as if this MOU is a pile of JELLO. It is full of ambiguities, innuendos and has very little concrete in its foundatio. All it promises is a great view. Would you really build a house on a pile of JELLO just because it appears to have the best view? I would definitely recommend following the advice of any contract attorney and never accept the first offer!


The last time we did this with LOA 93, look what that got us. Now look at what APA did. They rejected their first offer under heavy pressure of having an 1113 bankruptcy contract imposed on them and they ended up with a much better contract! Guess what, our own flight attendants did the same, rejecting unsatisfactory offers, and even they have had better contract offers presented to them each time. Spirit did the same and stood in unity and behold; they got a better contract as well. So did North American. The list goes on and on. This merger will NOT go forward without having a contract negotiated with USAPA! APA showed us UCC’s bluff and now it’s up to us to realize and present our true worth. Do you really want to be working to fully fund APA’s terminated defined Pension Benefit Plan? Do you want to help them increase the value of their stock plan, estimated to be worth $100,000 per American pilot, while we get nothing in return?


This contract leaves open many uncertainties. If I understand it correctly, the New American would not be obligated to secure a single operating certificate! The company may very well decide to operate two separate divisions. We could end up getting the 190’s while the rest is slowly transferred to APA. This would be possible under two separate certificates. Don’t you question why APA locked in the Pacific flying and the Phoenix boys locked in the Hawaii flying and we have no lock in on our current European and Caribbean flying? Looks like it will be up to the company to divvy up this flight time as they see fit. Why is it that APA has pay protection in perpetuity but we’ve only locked in 24 months? Let’s see, if an APA boy gets furloughed he keeps his date of hire at American but if a US Air boy gets furloughed he gets an interview with American and placed at the bottom of their seniority list- 190 F/O’s beware!


This also clears up the grievance backlog all in the companies favor. This MOU is such a poorly constructed contract. Would you really buy this property?!!! We need to have a better, more fairly written contract! One with more specifics, protections and assurances! We also deserve a better compensation package. We need our house built on a much more solid, concrete foundation!

Please, carefully consider your vote. Do not be pressured by artificial time lines. American has gone back several times to the bankruptcy judge to delay this bankruptcy process; they’ll do it again. It is time for us to put forward the value each of us brings to the combined company. Sent this MOU back now, before it's too late!


USAirways pilots (EAST) about to prove AGAIN we are the weakest and dumbest group in the industry I'm afraid.

 

[Phoenix]

How condescending of you. So only the no voters have actually read the whole 16 pages and understand it?

That the poor uneducated unwashed masses that are voting yes it is beyond them to make the proper decision (in your opinion) and vote no.

More fear and airplane envy. It is 26 "big" airplanes. Is that how you measure your self worth? How many seat your plane has? What did you guys be before Piedmont brought those "big" airplanes?

You must be so proud to fly "big" airplanes for commuter wages on LOA 93. Take a look and see how many of you actually get to fly the "big" airplanes and the MAJORITY of you get to watch with airplane envy as they taxi by. A MAJORITY will never fly the "big" airplane with or without a merge.

Dude it is the size of the paycheck not the number of seats that should be important to you and your family. WB flying pulling down the rest of the industry does not pay for college or retirement. Get over yourself.

In two to three years you will remember the A320 as a big plane.

 

[luvthe9]

When I attended the 1st Charlotte MOU Road Show to explain the MOU, we were distinctly told in the meeting several times that the MOU would not be voted on until after the AMR Board voted for the merger. In fact, it states that same thing in the MOU. At the time, I was confused as to why were voting now, but forgot that we were told we would not vote until after the AMR vote because there were other things that had priority.

That vote is scheduled for another 2 1/2 weeks at this time. So, I have to ask, why are we voting for this MOU now?

This letter explains it. The letter was signed in secret by Gary Hummel and the company and kept a secret until recently when it was given to the BPR and told to keep it confidential. When is Gary going to learn that there are people in USAPA that are furious at his secret dealings with the company and are going to give the pilots information they deserve to have?

My guess is the company wants the MOU voted on before the meeting so they can show the USC that we are happy with the MOU and the merger as it now stands.

Folks, we are being manipulated to the highest degree by the company through Gary Hummel, Steve Bradford and Rob Streble. This is like having Parker running our union! How the hell has this happened?

This MOU vote should be stopped today and the original time table should stand. We need to remove the people that have sold us out.