Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

Metrojet ponders "In case it slipped your attention. 75% of the pilot group has just ratified a JCBA. Did you ever stop and wonder why this MOU is just an MOU for the APA and a JCBA for the US Air pilots? Curiious isn't it?"

How in the world do you think this is a JCBA for the US Airways pilots? Show me in the bid that was published yesterday (AFTER the MOU was approved) where you can bid CLT I can bid PHX? What it will soon do is replace the methodology in LOA 96 for seniority integration.

In reality, as of this moment, the MOU does absolutely nothing. All of its gifts to management and returns for our pilots are dependent on not only an announcement of the merger, but the approval of the POR. Curious indeed that you think we just inked a JCBA. Since it now looks like we are going to arbitration with APA, that is quite a ways off.

Greeter

 

[cleardirect]

I don't know what kind of list we will live with. What I do know is that the east pilots will endure your courtroom nonsense with big pay raises and improvements in working conditions. And we won't have to listen to your drivel about LOA 93 anymore.

While a federal court may indeed give AOL injunctive relief on the seniority and keep in on hold for umpteen years, the court may very well allow whatever status quo the APA/USAPA SLI provides while you battle it out in court.

Many years (and many,many dollars) later, you may very well prevail and get the list redone. The company will cry foul and ask that there be no flush, and the court will grant it. By the time your longed-for victory (if any) takes full effect, I will be long gone into retirement as will a huge amount of my east and AA colleagues.

A very expensive, drawn out pyrrhic victory. Congratulations, maybe.

So what you saying is you got yours screw the guys that will be left to clean up the mess, understood.

You miss the bigger point. Now that we have a path to a contract. The rates and work rules are set. you just voted to make the DFR case ripe. You also voted out the east pilots biggest argument that the east would never vote a contract with the Nicolau. As judge Silver asked if there was a way to balance seniority in the contract. The contract is set so seniority is set. There is nothing the east has to offer other than the Nicolau that will in the words of the ninth not work the fear the west has.

The "it's not fair" defense falls flat as judge Silver said in her ruling about arbitration.

Getting the west a pay raise as an LUP is not gone. BTW it was not usapa that did that but the APA and the merger.

The majority gets what they want will soon go away as the APA will be the majority.

It appears that usapa is out of excuses for not using the Nicolau other than the east pilots don't like it you don't think it is fair. Weak and not a legal reason.

 

[cleardirect]

You fly 24% of your block hours on East routes but just voted to give up your minimum block hours protection in the old an now defunct TA .

Voted overwhelmingly I might add.

You have some more immediate concerns than your AOL Hail Mary .

I still laugh that you were stupid enough to name your selves and a group that not only lost that battle. - they were wiped out of existence. Exterminated.

Golly, history really does repeat itself.

I find it hard to read and believe anything you post when clearly you either don't know what you are talking about or are just making stuff up.

e. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways East
pilots (excluding Group I aircraft) during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less
than 664,426. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US
Airways West pilots during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than
436,850. The number of widebody positions, either maintained or pay protected, for US
Airways pilots shall be no less than 291 US Airways widebody captain positions and 475 US
Airways widebody first officer positions. A pay-protected pilot under this Paragraph 8(e) shall
not be eligible for additional pay protection under Paragraph 12(a). In the event a pilot is
eligible for pay protection under both Paragraphs 8(a) and 12(a), such pilot shall be entitled to
whichever pay protection produces the higher pay and shall also fulfill one of the minimum
number of widebody positions required herein

That looks like the exact same language east and west. That we both have min block hours to fly. Yes we gave up min block hour in the old T/A but still block hour protection in the NEW T/A.

 

[Res Judicata]

How in the world do you think this is a JCBA for the US Airways pilots?

You didn't know that? Wow. You're quite the informed voter!

 

[Bill Brasky]

It actually looks to me that since the totoal min block hours is combined East and west, the company will be free to downsize PHX as they see fit. We know they want to.

 

[Portly Dorman]

FGN-

Do you even work at Airways?

Have you paid attention to all the court room biz? Guess who is worried about liability without the NIC and who has the most to lose without the NIC.

The company, and they have testified in court their stance.

Yes, the west is flying 24% of the pre-east flying. Got to make up for the new flying on the east, a 330 or 2, the 3 757's we are locked out of, the 190 flying and the increased cost per seat mile we have now due to the merger. SWA, spirit and allegiant have grown in LAS but we can't because of that new CASM number. We had to sit and watch the east fly Montego Bay from PHX because we weren't quailified.

You fly 24% of your block hours on East routes but just voted to give up your minimum block hours protection in the old an now defunct TA .

Voted overwhelmingly I might add.

You have some more immediate concerns than your AOL Hail Mary .

I still laugh that you were stupid enough to name your selves and a group that not only lost that battle. - they were wiped out of existence. Exterminated.

Golly, history really does repeat itself.

 

[flybynite]

Will someone explain the total minimum blocks hrs?

 

[cleardirect]

It actually looks to me that since the totoal min block hours is combined East and west, the company will be free to downsize PHX as they see fit. We know they want to.

Must be a no voter. They have trouble reading and understanding English. Where does it say combined hours? Stop spreading FUD you are no good at it.

e. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways East
pilots (excluding Group I aircraft) during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less
than 664,426. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US
Airways West pilots during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than
436,850. The number of widebody positions, either maintained or pay protected, for US
Airways pilots shall be no less than 291 US Airways widebody captain positions and 475 US
Airways widebody first officer positions. A pay-protected pilot under this Paragraph 8(e) shall
not be eligible for additional pay protection under Paragraph 12(a). In the event a pilot is
eligible for pay protection under both Paragraphs 8(a) and 12(a), such pilot shall be entitled to
whichever pay protection produces the higher pay and shall also fulfill one of the minimum
number of widebody positions required herein

East pilots block hours 664,426
West pilots block hours 436,850
Calculated separately.

f. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline New American
Airlines pilots (excluding Group I) in any rolling twelve month look back period shall be no less
than 1,995,663 hours.

 

[flybynite]

Is that a snap shot of the current block hours?

 

[Bill Brasky]

FGN-

Do you even work at Airways?

Have you paid attention to all the court room biz? Guess who is worried about liability without the NIC and who has the most to lose without the NIC.

The company, and they have testified in court their stance.

Yes, the west is flying 24% of the pre-east flying. Got to make up for the new flying on the east, a 330 or 2, the 3 757's we are locked out of, the 190 flying and the increased cost per seat mile we have now due to the merger. SWA, spirit and allegiant have grown in LAS but we can't because of that new CASM number. We had to sit and watch the east fly Montego Bay from PHX because we weren't quailified.

Just sittin' here laughing at you....Got exactly the reaction I was expecting! LMAO!

What a bunch of scared furloughees!

 

[dca319]

Just sittin' here laughing at you....Got exactly the reaction I was expecting! LMAO!

What a bunch of scared furloughees!

What reaction were you expecting? The one where he quotes the numbers from the MoU? I don't understand the point of that exercise?

 

[Freighterguynow]

I hear the E 190. Is awesome .

Enjoy

 

[A320 Driver]

Furloughees medical insurance money was just converted to support merger related expenses.

So what? The 40 or so furloughs have been offered recall and turned it down repeatedly. I talked to a West guy that told me most if not all had moved on to greener pastures. Why should we continue to fund their medical insurance?

 

[A320 Driver]

No not mad. Just not going to let slide ignorant and untrue statements like jonhny kat made.

East pilots make all kinds of demeaning statements towards the west and then get upset when we return fire. Grow thicker skin or stop the attacks. But I am not going to accept statements like the west is inexperienced without reply.

Nothing I said was untrue. Unlike kats comment.

That is a lot different than elevating yourself with statements like "you killed people and we didn't". IMO, this is completely over the line and I hope to God you never have to know how that feels.

 

[Freighterguynow]

FGN-

Do you even work at Airways?

Have you paid attention to all the court room biz? Guess who is worried about liability without the NIC and who has the most to lose without the NIC.

The company, and they have testified in court their stance.

Yes, the west is flying 24% of the pre-east flying. Got to make up for the new flying on the east, a 330 or 2, the 3 757's we are locked out of, the 190 flying and the increased cost per seat mile we have now due to the merger. SWA, spirit and allegiant have grown in LAS but we can't because of that new CASM number. We had to sit and watch the east fly Montego Bay from PHX because we weren't quailified.

It'll be fun to watch your senior Captains in new hire school with off the street East new hires for the E 190