Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Portly Dorman]

You have fought admirably to maintain 'poor compensation' for the last 8 years. Should have been worried about a 2nd contract and been more on par with the industry. Instead 2/3 of the group compares their wage to the regional work force.

I salute you...

Actually, I've always been skeptical of unionism in the pilot Aviation community. I've moved on philosophically after all these years. I have NEVER been a supporter of ALPA mainly because the flaws in a national union where too many pilots fall through the cracks and can't be rationalized across the professional pilot spectrum.

My point simply being that unionism should be a business and business is the numbers. Pilots have applied intrinsic values (self worth) to a system that simply requires extrinsic results (we pick things up and put them down). We're not worth what we think we're worth because cultural clashes prevent the "great airline merger" melting pot to homoginize. In short, culture shock is the norm.

It's not really about "poor Jamie", it's about "Poor Compensation". With American, Air Cal, TWA, Reno, US Airways, AWA, Piedmont, PSA, Empire, Allegheny, Mohawk, (and a few others I probably left out) coined with deregulation, 9/11, the "great recession" and now stagnant growth I simply find that there are many more uncommon differences then there are common interests. That is the reality.

 

[Pi brat]

For 5 years DiOrio had no concern about group I rates. Now all of a sudden he cares. Could that be because he thought that with DOH it would only be west pilots that would be flying 190's?

for years east pilots were only concerned with the top of the seniority list. How many times have we had to listen to the whining about WB flying. Now the oreo is worried about the bottom of the list. AFTER he was removed as negotiator.

Besides! Why all the worry about 190's? usapa is going to get you DOH with the APA and the AA pilots will be flying those little planes while the east pilots take over the WB flying right?

Credibility is lacking in this rant.

I have said it before. Karma is a #### and she is coming for the east pilots.

Wait a minute. I though you have said that the guys running USAPA are angry F/Os and that they didn't care about the senior east pilots. Which is it?

 

[signals]

You waffle about as badly as your other cohorts do when they endorse someone. I guess being an opportunist requires you to change sides quickly, right Courtney?

So you need to have multiple accounts to up your score and make you seem like you are an ultimate authority.

Hey,pot, whois actually black?

Meep-meep 😛 😛 😛

 

[end_of_alpa]

You have fought admirably to maintain 'poor compensation' for the last 8 years. Should have been worried about a 2nd contract and been more on par with the industry. Instead 2/3 of the group compares their wage to the regional work force.

I salute you...

So it must your belief that if we would have taken one for the gipper(ALPA) and just said no in BK, we could have had nothing, not even LOA 93 and liquidated. Anything of any value would have gone to the big three and us airways pilots would be looking for jobs in the marketplace and maybe get hired on by someone else.

In fact, most AWA pilots would be looking too.

But that doesn't matter, by taking what we could get we become "pariahs" in the industry like Continental instead. That's why West pilots hate East pilots....for bringing the industry rates down. Right?

 

[Claxon]

Sorry for the typos. Iphone sux

The phone is fine. The operator sux.

 

[Claxon]

Just saw the Hero of the Hudson on Smithsonian Channel. Proudly wearing his USAPA wings and helping back St. Jude Hospital. I hope all you easterner s and western div. pilots contribute. Sully is quite a pilot and humanitarian. You all should be proud of him and his cause.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Well if the DOH mantra hadn't been the controlling feeling.

The average east C/O gave up easily $40k per year, times say 7 years, that's $280k. All to protect the Furloughees.

From where I stand that makes no sense, if you where age 55 or older the $$ is gone, never to be recovered. That $280k would have fit nicely into your our retirement. There's no retro, no huge bonus.

If cooler heads had prevailed, the pension would have been frozen, a better work rule/pay package would have been agreed on.

So no, if we could have merged and agreed on seniority we could have moved on. But we didn't and we are where we are. Neither was Gold Star Airlines so we should have worked together, but we didn't. We had our chance but we let it go. So here we are.

So it must your belief that if we would have taken one for the gipper(ALPA) and just said no in BK, we could have had nothing, not even LOA 93 and liquidated. Anything of any value would have gone to the big three and us airways pilots would be looking for jobs in the marketplace and maybe get hired on by someone else.

In fact, most AWA pilots would be looking too.

But that doesn't matter, by taking what we could get we become "pariahs" in the industry like Continental instead. That's why West pilots hate East pilots....for bringing the industry rates down. Right?

 

[signals]

Just saw the Hero of the Hudson on Smithsonian Channel. Proudly wearing his USAPA wings and helping back St. Jude Hospital. I hope all you easterner s and western div. pilots contribute. Sully is quite a pilot and humanitarian. You all should be proud of him and his cause.

Nah, the Westies can't accept that the "miracle" actually happened. They are tickled that he was wearing his 20 year ALPA pin in his original picture. To the good people of the West, Sully is a traitor.

Just ask dca319!

 

[signals]

Feels good talking to yourself, huh?

Monkee smells like a douche.

Meep-meep 😛 😛 😛

 

[Beancounter]

Nah, the Westies can't accept that the "miracle" actually happened. They are tickled that he was wearing his 20 year ALPA pin in his original picture. To the good people of the West, Sully is a traitor.

Just ask dca319!

C'mon Signals, don't tarnish one of the few good (baring division comment) posts Claxon has had.

Bean

 

[luvthe9]

Subj: Re: [phillypilot] Re: Do we shoot the messenger?


[background=transparent]Let's see, on Monday I went to 2 road shows and listened to the hard sell by the NAC. I then reviewed the written propaganda and among other things, identified that the block hours and attrition schedule are misleading at best. Funny how both of these make things look better than they really are. I'm sure it was an oversight. [/background]


[background=transparent]No it wasn't just an oversight because I told Owens and Hummel last spring that the same attrition information included on the current literature was misleading but they insisted on continuing to use the exaggerated numbers. I suspect they want to give the appearance of upward movement. [/background]


[background=transparent]Regarding the block hours. I had many "block hour" discussions with Dean and he is well aware that the new block hour minimums are lower than the current yet for some reason the NAC is saying otherwise. The explanation is simple. Just as it was last year when Gary told me it was my job to sell the Term Sheet, Dean got the same directive. "You're a salesman, sell it"[/background]


[background=transparent]Truly Pathetic. [/background]

 

[luvthe9]

That's why West pilots hate East pilots....for bringing the industry rates down. Right?

Bingo, and lets not for get AA gave us the B scale.

 

[dca319]

Subj: Re: [phillypilot] Re: Do we shoot the messenger?


[background=transparent]Let's see, on Monday I went to 2 road shows and listened to the hard sell by the NAC. I then reviewed the written propaganda and among other things, identified that the block hours and attrition schedule are misleading at best. Funny how both of these make things look better than they really are. I'm sure it was an oversight. [/background]


[background=transparent]No it wasn't just an oversight because I told Owens and Hummel last spring that the same attrition information included on the current literature was misleading but they insisted on continuing to use the exaggerated numbers. I suspect they want to give the appearance of upward movement. [/background]


[background=transparent]Regarding the block hours. I had many "block hour" discussions with Dean and he is well aware that the new block hour minimums are lower than the current yet for some reason the NAC is saying otherwise. The explanation is simple. Just as it was last year when Gary told me it was my job to sell the Term Sheet, Dean got the same directive. "You're a salesman, sell it"[/background]


[background=transparent]Truly Pathetic. [/background]

Anonymous and posted by Courtney - seems legit. :huh:

 

[noDOH4u]

Subj: Re: [phillypilot] Re: Do we shoot the messenger?


[background=transparent]Let's see, on Monday I went to 2 road shows and listened to the hard sell by the NAC. I then reviewed the written propaganda and among other things, identified that the block hours and attrition schedule are misleading at best. Funny how both of these make things look better than they really are. I'm sure it was an oversight. [/background]


[background=transparent]No it wasn't just an oversight because I told Owens and Hummel last spring that the same attrition information included on the current literature was misleading but they insisted on continuing to use the exaggerated numbers. I suspect they want to give the appearance of upward movement. [/background]


[background=transparent]Regarding the block hours. I had many "block hour" discussions with Dean and he is well aware that the new block hour minimums are lower than the current yet for some reason the NAC is saying otherwise. The explanation is simple. Just as it was last year when Gary told me it was my job to sell the Term Sheet, Dean got the same directive. "You're a salesman, sell it"[/background]


[background=transparent]Truly Pathetic. [/background]

So let me get this straight. Not enough people left on this forum that agree with you. So you scour the internet for posts on other forums populated with miserable, bitter, malcontents like yourself, cherry pick the posts you want and copy them here. UFB! You really are desperate. The MOU will pass. By a landslide. You are in the minority. Make peace with it now.

 

[prechilill]

So let me get this straight. Not enough people left on this forum that agree with you. So you scour the internet for posts on other forums populated with miserable, bitter, malcontents like yourself, cherry pick the posts you want and copy them here. UFB! You really are desperate. The MOU will pass. By a landslide. You are in the minority. Make peace with it now.

I predict the MOU passing 80/20- it's time to move on and the merger is inevitable.