Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Yes and the leopard is no longer a leopard.

I took him for more of a flea bitten alley cat. Uhaul that is.

 

[Pi brat]

The MOU does not cement the Nic.

The Nic was cemented the day Nicolau published the award.

The MOU move us forward to the eventual implementation of an already cemented Nic.

That's your opinion. Prater didn't agree with you, but look where that got him. We'll see. You still preaching billions in damages too?

 

[Pi brat]

No offense taken. Its frustrating how the mob mentality always seems to take hold with our pilot group and it always becomes a case of "if you're not with us 100%, you're against us." East is a prime example of that mentality with his disparaging "shill" remarks. I refuse to get on that "Nic is dead" bandwagon because I don't see it. Its not that I don't support it, but just because I don't support it doesn't mean its not a possibility. There is a reason the company is looking for guidance from the courts to move off of it and I think its because they see the potential litigation associated with that. They want an answer to throw either at AoL or USAPA as to why they've taken their final position which, btw, is still the Nicolau. If I had money to bet, I'd bet we see this list in the near future.

I agree on some of that, but on the company front I think they know what will happen. I believe the DJ was a delay tactic. but again just IMHO.

 

[Piedmont1984]

As someone more clever than I stated elsewhere - the Nic is like the $200 dollars you get after you pass 'Go' - which represents our ratification vote. We never ratified and so we never passed 'Go'. The west has always said we have the right to cut off our nose - etc. - and remain on LOA93. Our suffering under LOA93 may soon come to an end and the Nic can RIP.

 

[dca319]

As someone more clever than I stated elsewhere - the Nic is like the $200 dollars you get after you pass 'Go' - which represents our ratification vote. We never ratified and so we never passed 'Go'. The west has always said we have the right to cut off our nose - etc. - and remain on LOA93. Our suffering under LOA93 may soon come to an end and the Nic can RIP.

Don't hold your breath Piedmont. I don't think it's that simple.

 

[ON2ALK]

Who are you with now?

No more airline life for me. Hung up my wings. I thought I'd look into the airline world and check out this site again....crazy.

 

[Piedmont1984]

No more airline life for me. Hung up my wings. I thought I'd look into the airline world and check out this site again....crazy.

Do you live in Alaska?

 

[ON2ALK]

Do you live in Alaska?

No. That handle made a lot more sense in 02 than it does now. After the furlough I landed a civil engineering gig in Juneau. That was over a long time ago. SoCal now.

 

[traderjake]

Really, how low will these guys go, and how many of our fellow pilots will they continue to attack to further their own angry agenda?

Truly, there is a disparity in their own little warped world on the standards they place upon others, and the ones they refuse to live by.

• It was okay to force an election to replace our union, as allowed by law?
• It was okay (for McKee) to protest the election of our current union President, at our expense?
• It is okay to openly criticize other BPR members in communications?
• It is okay to openly criticize members-in-good standing who disagree with them?
• It is okay to openly criticize the NAC and the professional negotiators who THEY hired?
• It is okay to openly criticize our union president during a crucial merger?
• It is okay to openly cast harmful allegations and accusations towards not only our union officers, but any among the pilot group who may disagree with their own CLT agenda? Not to mention openly and publicly accusing them of lying?
• It is okay to criticize the entire Recall process, and our right as union members granted to us under our very own Union by-laws and rules, as well as under the DOL labor rules and law - unless it affects them, of course?
• It is okay to continue branding and blaming so-called "former" ALPA supporters as the reason for initiating this recall - instead of taking responsibility for their own past actions and words? How long can they continue using THAT argument?
• It is okay to openly accuse and DIVIDE this pilot group into TWO groups - those that are "for" the welfare of the pilots (as long as you agree with the CLT BPR) or those who are out to hurt the pilot group (if you don't agree with them). Now, they also pit Captains against F/O's. Shameful.
• And finally - It is okay to attempt to play own our sympathies by crying about having to fund their own letters and communications and BLAME our own union officers for not allowing them to use other union Committees, facilities or letterhead when it would be a clear-cut violation of D.O.L. Chapter 8, Section 401(g) rules to do so?

BUT - it is NOT okay for anyone else to criticize their behavior and actions. Double Standards at work here guys. Their way, or the hi-way.


They just don't "get it". This recall could have been used by them as an opportunity to reach-out to those who may disagree with them and attempt to bridge the gap in certain different union philosophy issues - Instead, they have used it as an opportunity to continue attacking and attempting to publicly discredit anyone who they personally disagree with, and attempt to cast dispersion upon fellow union members and officers. I, personally, find it shameful and unprofessional behavior - we all have the "right" as dues-paying union members to publicly disagree with our union leadership. However, they (as elected individuals) do NOT have the right to personally and publicly attack fellow union pilots or our (and their fellow) leadership - I find that behavior bereft of character and integrity, and this poor behavior is also addressed in our union Code of Conduct.

Vote your conscience, that is YOUR right, and mine. Either way, the democratic process will be served, as it should be allowed to.

 

[Claxon]

The MOU does not cement the Nic.

The Nic was cemented the day Nicolau published the award.

The MOU move us forward to the eventual implementation of an already cemented Nic.

Good analogy. Cemented. The Nic was cemented like Jimmy Hoffa. Never to be seen again.

 

[Claxon]

Really, how low will these guys go, and how many of our fellow pilots will they continue to attack to further their own angry agenda?

Truly, there is a disparity in their own little warped world on the standards they place upon others, and the ones they refuse to live by.

• It was okay to force an election to replace our union, as allowed by law?
• It was okay (for McKee) to protest the election of our current union President, at our expense?
• It is okay to openly criticize other BPR members in communications?
• It is okay to openly criticize members-in-good standing who disagree with them?
• It is okay to openly criticize the NAC and the professional negotiators who THEY hired?
• It is okay to openly criticize our union president during a crucial merger?
• It is okay to openly cast harmful allegations and accusations towards not only our union officers, but any among the pilot group who may disagree with their own CLT agenda? Not to mention openly and publicly accusing them of lying?
• It is okay to criticize the entire Recall process, and our right as union members granted to us under our very own Union by-laws and rules, as well as under the DOL labor rules and law - unless it affects them, of course?
• It is okay to continue branding and blaming so-called "former" ALPA supporters as the reason for initiating this recall - instead of taking responsibility for their own past actions and words? How long can they continue using THAT argument?
• It is okay to openly accuse and DIVIDE this pilot group into TWO groups - those that are "for" the welfare of the pilots (as long as you agree with the CLT BPR) or those who are out to hurt the pilot group (if you don't agree with them). Now, they also pit Captains against F/O's. Shameful.
• And finally - It is okay to attempt to play own our sympathies by crying about having to fund their own letters and communications and BLAME our own union officers for not allowing them to use other union Committees, facilities or letterhead when it would be a clear-cut violation of D.O.L. Chapter 8, Section 401(g) rules to do so?

BUT - it is NOT okay for anyone else to criticize their behavior and actions. Double Standards at work here guys. Their way, or the hi-way.


They just don't "get it". This recall could have been used by them as an opportunity to reach-out to those who may disagree with them and attempt to bridge the gap in certain different union philosophy issues - Instead, they have used it as an opportunity to continue attacking and attempting to publicly discredit anyone who they personally disagree with, and attempt to cast dispersion upon fellow union members and officers. I, personally, find it shameful and unprofessional behavior - we all have the "right" as dues-paying union members to publicly disagree with our union leadership. However, they (as elected individuals) do NOT have the right to personally and publicly attack fellow union pilots or our (and their fellow) leadership - I find that behavior bereft of character and integrity, and this poor behavior is also addressed in our union Code of Conduct.

Vote your conscience, that is YOUR right, and mine. Either way, the democratic process will be served, as it should be allowed to.

I rad the same on a Chip Munn site. Did he write this too?

 

[Claxon]

I assume by that sentence you mean ripeness will be triggered at some point.

The only ripeness is when Nic4 takes off her shoes.

 

[Claxon]

Wait what minute? Your post 5957 is something I would post almost to the word. So I'd say you and I are more in agreement than you are with East. And there are mare than a "few" east pilots that think the Nicolau is not something that we can merely brush off. Most won't talk about it publicly for obvious reasons. Look at how you and east automatically assign a west tag or management shill to me just because I don't harrumph anyone who posts anything other than the Nicolau is dead.

Jurik Island.

 

[A320 Driver]

Agreed. The whole idea of being put under any conveniently contrived and entirely artificial "deadline" should be enough of a red flag, just by it's self. Our only difference here is that I'd observe it to be not the inane, but rather the INSANELY vague language of the MOU.

Whew!!! Good thing you paid attention in your Contract Law class at Harvard....NOT!!! What is insane is a group of people who have now become self proclaimed experts on contract language and blow off the people with the actual degrees and experience to make such a determination. Arrogance at it's absolute finest.

 

[EastUS1]

Careful with that kind of talk. The little General is going to label you a west pilot and a management shill. Isn't that right eastus1?

By no means, in that I agree with him that the MOU (tragically, as it's now written) will very probably be accepted. Your postings define you as an entirely seperate issue. As for your "The little General" stuff? It's not my fault you never made it past Girl Scouts' cookie sales....Of course, in all fairness; I never made it past one without several boxes purchased.