Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

Doug and Scott already told you numerous times that "accepted" means nothing. Go see the crew news video again if you wish. As for ALPA, they aren't here any more. Every merger moves this group further away from them. The Nic is still a non-player. I can't see the AA guys wanting it either, as it clearly benefits very young, junior west guys over the older guys at AA and LCC with more longevity. It's a loser any way you see it.

I watched USAPA's merger counsel say that a DOH proposal was going to be USAPA's list, as outlined in the C&BLs. No Nic. With no bump, no flush provisions, no one will lose a position they currently have. That is all the company cares about. Counsel also said that you could sue again, if you wish. It will be as successful as the last time.

Billy;

You may be right, but I seriously doubt it. Emotion never wins against law, logic & ethics.

BTW, when counsel tells you "that a DOH proposal was going to be USAPA's list, as outlined in the C&BLs. No Nic. With no bump, no flush provisions, no one will lose a position they currently have. That is all the company cares about. Counsel also said that you could sue again, if you wish. It will be as successful as the last time.", it's because you are paying them to say that. At $400 or better an hour, who wouldn't tell you what you want to hear?

Yes, we have lawyers too. The difference? We actually did win the DFR case. Your lawyer that lost, has left with a bag full of our money.

It took a jury 90 minutes to make that decision. The only reason that the NIC wasn't crammed down your throat then with damages, was the Ninth (in a vote 2-1) seem to think that the case wasn't quite ripe - YET.

Delay, delay, delay, delay. Millions spent on litigation, many more millions in lost wages & time off.

One of us will be right, the other will not. SYIC.

 

[nic4us]

Indeed = IF.

"...the lawyers have said the intent and context is well documented..." I'd offer the thought that those weren't the company's lawyers saying that.

The point is, you can either fight the vague language you already have as a sub group minority at an airline where your union is no longer in control, or you can get a raise with some vague language and IF an issue comes up fight it with the support of the union and the entire pilot group that is effected.

 

[Bill Brasky]

You watched usapa merger counsel? Really? The guy who put another chip in the West DFR bank by stating out loud that he represents 3500 pilots at uscaba?

Uscaba can try and go with a DFR certain DOH list that has absolutely zero history at LCC other than in Bradford's wet dream, but I am thinking it won't even make it past a certification process if one is outlined in the SLI protocol.

Not only can they, but they are going to. Just because you may have a case doesn't mean you'll win it. Since USAPA is obligated to represent the best interst of the MAJORITY of it's members, and APA will have the same obligation, your DFR case is over. Pay a lawyer if you want, it's your cash. Oh, and the defense will be using OUR cash, yours included.

Cry all you want. You guys are going to have to pay your dues, just like everyone else.

 

[EastUS1]

How poetic.... You're on a "C" scale and the APA is going to fix it for you..

How very noble of them indeed, and by supposed extension; yourself, even though you're personally against this merger? I see. Carry on, "proud" little "soldier". 🙂

If you've time while you're heroically saving everyone here "soldier"...I'll take a dozen boxes of the Thin Mints please. 😉

 

[traderjake]

Cry all you want. You guys are going to have to pay your dues, just like everyone else.

Hopefully to APA soon, cry all you want when that happens.

 

[Res Judicata]

Not only can they, but they are going to. Just because you may have a case doesn't mean you'll win it. Since USAPA is obligated to represent the best interst of the MAJORITY of it's members, and APA will have the same obligation, your DFR case is over. Pay a lawyer if you want, it's your cash. Oh, and the defense will be using OUR cash, yours included.

Cry all you want. You guys are going to have to pay your dues, just like everyone else.

You scab MF'ers never Learn. The union MUST FAIRLY REPRESENT ALL DUES PAYING MEMBERS! You'll be going back to court in the very near future. Maybe a 6th Federal Judge can explain it to you AGAIN.

 

[AAviator]

How very noble of them indeed, and by supposed extension; yourself, even though you're personally against this merger? I see. Carry on, "proud" little "soldier". 🙂

If you've time while you're heroically saving everyone here "soldier"...I'll take a dozen boxes of the Thin Mints please. 😉

East, how are you going to fix your problem absent AA/APA?

 

[EastUS1]

The point is, you can either fight the vague language you already have as a sub group minority at an airline where your union is no longer in control, or you can get a raise with some vague language and IF an issue comes up fight it with the support of the union and the entire pilot group that is effected.

I understand your position here nic, but believe such requires a much larger, even downright grand leap of faith that I'm unable to participate in. I strongly suspect this will pass as is, and thus I can only hope my gross misgivings prove unfounded.

Oh well. We'll all know soon enough. There's no real joy to ever be found in any I-told-you-so's and I must hope for the best for all concened here.

 

[Portly Dorman]

East, how are you going to fix your problem absent AA/APA?

Let's go have coffee, I'll buy. This will take a while.

insert Jeopardy music....

 

[EastUS1]

At $400 or better an hour, who wouldn't tell you what you want to hear?

Consider that reasonable observation where the MOU's concerned as well, if even for the briefest of moments.

 

[EastUS1]

East, how are you going to fix your problem absent AA/APA?

If you've the slightest bit of any supposed "point" it's escaping me.

Unlike such a "proud" little "soldier" as yourself...I don't waste my life flying with Dumbo in Fantasyland. The probability of this merger taking place (against your stated wishes) is high, and is nothing any individual here has the slightest control over in any case.

 

[Bill Brasky]

You scab MF'ers never Learn. The union MUST FAIRLY REPRESENT ALL DUES PAYING MEMBERS! You'll be going back to court in the very near future. Maybe a 6th Federal Judge can explain it to you AGAIN.

That's right, they do. You're the group that thinks a small minority should get a windfall over the majority. YOU LOSE, AGAIN! Plus, you'll be even a smaller minority at APA! No way for you to win!

 

[Bill Brasky]

Hopefully to APA soon, cry all you want when that happens.

Why would that bother me? I bet I'll be represented there, too.

 

[luvthe9]

Yep, that's what the extra $50k a year I make over an east captain goes to....

http://www.watervistarealty.com/

So proud to be the second lowest paid in the industry, but if that's all you got go with it.

 

[cactusboy53]

That's right, they do. You're the group that thinks a small minority should get a windfall over the majority. YOU LOSE, AGAIN! Plus, you'll be even a smaller minority at APA! No way for you to win!

Readers:
The above argument - LOGIC/LAW or EMOTION?

CB