Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[PullUp]

Do you want it written in crayon too?

Maybe we should have it written in crayon (in clear, unambiguous fashion) so that you can see exactly what you will be losing.
NO.

 

[nevergiveup]

The MOU gets us to the MTA which gets us to a JCBA.

But not a negotiated JCBA as required by the trans agreement. APA did theirs last year. We could have a list before the next JCBA, according to the MOU, or if it goes to MB, then of course we would have a negotiated JCBA as required. Of course, no one's required to use the NIC as noted by the courts. Gen Y has a unique take on life....they feel they should not have to pay their dues! Must be an Obama thing.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Portly, Clear, CactusBoy etc...,

Still no actual reply to my request? Though I see the superfluous East / West Rhetoric continues. I ask you again, and especially to Clear, please read the analysis and provide your non "east vs. west" advice? Setting aside any seniority issues, please tell me how you feel this new information may affect us in future years???

Thank You,

Kubota

The MOU has problems.

As I have stated many times, usapa was not invited to the table until the very end. Why??? Past history is a good indications of future performance.

The pitbull it appears was a huge detriment to the process so Dug left us out. Even east pilots here have said he's an over reacher.

We are stuck with this agreement. Having said that I don't have any indication that the MOU will be in existence in 8 years like the TA is now.

It's a pig but it's our pig. We have to accept a bad agreement to get a good agreement.

Vote yes, more $$$ and a seat for the real contract. Vote no, no $$$ and the APA designs the contract.

It was the UCC that wanted this to work, not usapa or APA or AMR or Dug. Does anyone really think we get a third bite at the apple?

The MOU has a timeline and all parties agree accept arbitration. That kinda makes this work.

 

[EastUS1]

You may want to think again about the vote. This MOU is way to open ended in favor of the New company / APA.

I couldn't agree more. My one vote's been cast against it. Way too open ended doesn't even begin to address the gross deficiencies and ready opportunities for abuse and "interpretation" within this proposal.

 

[EastUS1]

The MOU has problems.

We are stuck with this agreement.

It's a pig but it's our pig. We have to accept a bad agreement to get a good agreement.

"As I have stated many times, usapa was not invited to the table until the very end. Why???" Perhaps because management, apparently correctly from your tone here, estimated the US pilot side to be an "easy kill" for the gross concessions they want from us and didn't worry about group willingness to roll over and beg for even the smallest treat?

"We are stuck with this agreement." Only if enough vote in favor of it.

"It's a pig but it's our pig." Only if enough knowingly choose to provide a trough for it to gleefully squeel and wallow around in.

"We have to accept a bad agreement to get a good agreement."...? Huh? Does that "logic" truly make sense to anyone here? Why's management so happy with this MOU and, after surrendering what they very clearly want in the way of concessions; just how and when would that fantasized "good agreement" magically come to be?

 

[EastUS1]

Unfavorable language? You betcha' - and it shouldn't have been leaked. It should have been disclosed!
Supporting letters? Rewrite the damn thing so that even pilots can understand it.
NO.

Amen.

 

[Zone5]

I don't sign a contract then work out the language later.
NO.

IT'S NOT A CONTRACT! It's a Memorandum of Understanding, which among other things, gets us a seat at the JCBA table. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Would you rather stand outside in the rain while APA writes the contract?

Unbelievable!


seajay

 

[EastUS1]

Do you want it written in crayon too?

Would you care to discuss and debate the utility and intent of any portions of the contained language and provisions?...Or are you just playing your usual part of the smarmy village idiot, who's mistakenly fantasizing even the least bit of a functional and discriminating intellect?

 

[dca319]

I don't sign a contract then work out the language later.
NO.

It's not a contract.

 

[Phoenix]

More selective governing.

Guess there is no code of conduct for officers or committee members.

As I recall, transparency was the rally call as well as the promise..

 

[EastUS1]

It's not a contract.

Call it what you will. Is it not a legal instrument that supercedes current contractual conditions and concedes away any true semblance of contained protections for the US group?

 

[traderjake]

I would point to his record of wins and losses as far as his opinion goes. He was the one that "found" the LOA 93 grievance. How did that work out?

That's says it all.

 

[dca319]

I still have 50 hours of holding fuel.

Burn holes in the sky for 50 more hours at LoA 93 rates when you know you'll ha e to divert anyway. Yes, that's the ticket.

 

[EastUS1]

I don't sign a contract then work out the language later.

How ever doing so can be seen as anything less than insane behavior escapes me as well.

Oh well. Everyone has to call this for themselves.

 

[Phoenix]

greeter

BTW, I'm not calling our BPR stupid, but unless they are all mensa members then they are cut from the same intellectual cloth as you and I. We're not stupid either. Give us the information we need to make an informed decision. Don't treat us like we are stupid.

Bingo. ALPA was hated because of two things 1) they made decisions contrary to our input (think pensions, age 60) and 2) they mocked membership voting (kept us in the dark to affect the outcome, or simply denied membership voting).

It's ironic that some who support the MOU also say the recall result in CLT and the rep vote in PHL won't really matter. 😉