Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Is that a snap shot of the current block hours?

4000 hours more for the west.
16000 hours more for the east.


Source NAC road show

 

[algflyr]

e. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways East pilots (excluding Group I aircraft) during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than 664,426. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways West pilots during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than 436,850.


A few interesting things in that part you quoted from the MOU... The East number is bigger than the current East minimum, and the new West number is smaller than the current West minimum. Also, the East number (and the APA number as well) specifically excludes the 190 as counting towards that number, yet that wasn't included in the West number. So my take is that IF 190's were to be flown on the West, that would count towards the minimum block hours... It seems PHX could be vulnerable to reduced flying and down gauging of the West mainline fleet all within the parameters of the MOU...

 

[cleardirect]

e. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways East pilots (excluding Group I aircraft) during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than 664,426. The total number of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by mainline US Airways West pilots during any rolling 12-month look-back period shall be no less than 436,850.


A few interesting things in that part you quoted from the MOU... The East number is bigger than the current East minimum, and the new West number is smaller than the current West minimum. Also, the East number (and the APA number as well) specifically excludes the 190 as counting towards that number, yet that wasn't included in the West number. So my take is that IF 190's were to be flown on the West, that would count towards the minimum block hours... It seems PHX could be vulnerable to reduced flying and down gauging of the West mainline fleet all within the parameters of the MOU...

The NAC stated the west number was larger then current hours. Take it up with them.

It has been 6 years since the west has IOU's for 1/3 of the 190's. The company so far has refused to move 190's to the west and pay off those IOU's. Why now pray tell would the company now place 190's on the west?

 

[A320 Driver]

You miss the bigger point. Now that we have a path to a contract. The rates and work rules are set. you just voted to make the DFR case ripe. You also voted out the east pilots biggest argument that the east would never vote a contract with the Nicolau. As judge Silver asked if there was a way to balance seniority in the contract. The contract is set so seniority is set. There is nothing the east has to offer other than the Nicolau that will in the words of the ninth not work the fear the west has.

A path to a contract is not a contract. You don't have a case until you can prove harm. That was made abundantly clear. You can't even get close until a different SLI is accepted AND implemented. Then and ONLY then can you begin to make your argument. Your next task will be to unravel a federally sanctioned seniority arbitration. That is when you will also have the company oppose your argument as the training costs would be staggering. Of course, that all comes after you tell the APA furloughed pilots they have no value and should immediately be stapled to the bottom of the list. USAPA will oppose you, the company will oppose you, the APA will oppose you and you will indeed see the NIC put on trial...NOT like Wake's kangaroo court.

The majority gets what they want will soon go away as the APA will be the majority.

And you think they want the NIC??? We shall see.

 

[cactusboy53]

You fly 24% of your block hours on East routes but just voted to give up your minimum block hours protection in the old an now defunct TA .

Voted overwhelmingly I might add.

You have some more immediate concerns than your AOL Hail Mary .

I still laugh that you were stupid enough to name your selves and a group that not only lost that battle. - they were wiped out of existence. Exterminated.

Golly, history really does repeat itself.

The former US Air died September 26, 2007. It's not "your" flying any more than it's "my" flying. 5 1/2 + years is enough. Get over it.

 

[cleardirect]

A path to a contract is not a contract. You don't have a case until you can prove harm. That was made abundantly clear. You can't even get close until a different SLI is accepted AND implemented. Then and ONLY then can you begin to make your argument. Your next task will be to unravel a federally sanctioned seniority arbitration. That is when you will also have the company oppose your argument as the training costs would be staggering. Of course, that all comes after you tell the APA furloughed pilots they have no value and should immediately be stapled to the bottom of the list. USAPA will oppose you, the company will oppose you, the APA will oppose you and you will indeed see the NIC put on trial...NOT like Wake's kangaroo court. And you think they want the NIC??? We shall see.

When does a contract become a contract? Did I say we were going to court to file today? We WILL have a contract soon. The APA unlike usapa is not going to mess around and delay getting us all on the same contract.
Read the MOU, contract first then seniority arbitration. As soon as the contract is in place we have a ripe and valid case.

The arbitrators will unravel the seniority thing before they make a decision. So no need to worry about the cost to the company for retraining or reordering. But keep that thought in mind when the Nicolau is used and one of you east knuckleheads thinks about trying to unravel federal arbitration.

BTW I will not have to tell the APA furloughed pilots anything. That is going to be usapa and APA and the arbitrators job. But if you would like to defend to the new hires and east pilots hired after 2001 why you think they deserve to be stapled junior to furloughed APA pilots feel free.

The APA has no reason to oppose the Nicolau that list effects them must less than a DOH list. The company has no reason to oppose the Nicolau list they have already accepted it and told the court they believe it to be the only legal list. The arbitrators have no reason to oppose it, it was done by one of their own. Usapa will have no choice but to present and defend the Nicolau list. That is going to be the really enjoyable part.

Finally it truly is sad that you believe that a federal judge ran a kangaroo court because you can’t rap your head around that basic facts of this case and that unions have to treat ALL members fairly and equally not just the majority.

 

[A320 Driver]

When does a contract become a contract? Did I say we were going to court to file today? We WILL have a contract soon. The APA unlike usapa is not going to mess around and delay getting us all on the same contract.
Read the MOU, contract first then seniority arbitration. As soon as the contract is in place we have a ripe and valid case.

I disagree. How does a contract harm you? It doesn't. If there is to be any harm, it would be after a SLI is negotiated or arbitrated then integrated. Then and ONLY then can you prove harm. The 9th said the possibility of harm was not enough.

 

[Portly Dorman]

I guess you really understand how usapa represents it pilots.

It'll be fun to watch your senior Captains in new hire school with off the street East new hires for the E 190

 

[algflyr]

The NAC stated the west number was larger then current hours. Take it up with them.

It has been 6 years since the west has IOU's for 1/3 of the 190's. The company so far has refused to move 190's to the west and pay off those IOU's. Why now pray tell would the company now place 190's on the west?

My apologies, you are correct. The min. block hours for the West in the MOU are higher than current minimums. I had transposed the numbers. Ugh! Sorry...

As for the 190's, I think it's evident they would pull down flying out of PHX if they were allowed to do so. Smaller planes like the 190 could work in PHX where an Airbus just doesn't fit the city pair. If they could pull Airbus flying from PHX and replace it with 190's and have that not effect the minimum block hours, it's possible to do so under the MOU...

 

[Bill Brasky]

When does a contract become a contract? Did I say we were going to court to file today? We WILL have a contract soon. The APA unlike usapa is not going to mess around and delay getting us all on the same contract.
Read the MOU, contract first then seniority arbitration. As soon as the contract is in place we have a ripe and valid case.

The arbitrators will unravel the seniority thing before they make a decision. So no need to worry about the cost to the company for retraining or reordering. But keep that thought in mind when the Nicolau is used and one of you east knuckleheads thinks about trying to unravel federal arbitration.

BTW I will not have to tell the APA furloughed pilots anything. That is going to be usapa and APA and the arbitrators job. But if you would like to defend to the new hires and east pilots hired after 2001 why you think they deserve to be stapled junior to furloughed APA pilots feel free.

The APA has no reason to oppose the Nicolau that list effects them must less than a DOH list. The company has no reason to oppose the Nicolau list they have already accepted it and told the court they believe it to be the only legal list. The arbitrators have no reason to oppose it, it was done by one of their own. Usapa will have no choice but to present and defend the Nicolau list. That is going to be the really enjoyable part.

Finally it truly is sad that you believe that a federal judge ran a kangaroo court because you can’t rap your head around that basic facts of this case and that unions have to treat ALL members fairly and equally not just the majority.

It's your cash. Blow it any way you want.

 

[cleardirect]

It's your cash. Blow it any way you want.

Thanks for your permission.

We just got a raise so even more for the fight.

You guys better start saving for the inevitable threatened law suit from the east when you have to live with the Nicolau.

 

[A320 Driver]

You guys better start saving for the inevitable threatened law suit from the east when you have to live with the Nicolau.

We are a long from having to live with the NIC (if ever). There are plenty of retirements and upgrades that will take place before it is ever an issue.

 

[Bill Brasky]

We are a long from having to live with the NIC (if ever). There are plenty of retirements and upgrades that will take place before it is ever an issue.

The Nic is now officially dead. Or, it will be if the BODs vote for this merger. Just reread paragraph 4 of the MOU. Dead! Gone! If your AOL guys told you something else, they really are as stupid as I thought!

The Merger Committee Chairman told you last week how this was going to go down.

 

[Pi brat]

So what? The 40 or so furloughs have been offered recall and turned it down repeatedly. I talked to a West guy that told me most if not all had moved on to greener pastures. Why should we continue to fund their medical insurance?

Are we funding the furloughed west medical? I thought they didn't get that benefit, but it's been while.

 

[Pi brat]

The former US Air died September 26, 2007. It's not "your" flying any more than it's "my" flying. 5 1/2 + years is enough. Get over it.

You telling someone to "get over it". Thanks for the laugh.