Deep Throat

[Hopeful]

So who do you think it is from the TWU that has been telling AA management how easy we are to get concessions from?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

If it is only one person, he goes back to at least 1984.

 

[seed]

Looks as if Delle is the new leader of concessions...oh wait...do I sense a rebuttal? AA or the others...what's the difference...TWU/AMFA...what's the difference? Are they having a democratic recall of all UAL officers at UAL today?...don't think so...so much for that advantage.

 

[High Speed Steel]

So who do you think it is from the TWU that has been telling AA management how easy we are to get concessions from?

[post="274793"][/post]​

From reading through the archives of this forum. I believe it is you, and your "amfa minions" 😉

 

[TWU informer]

Looks as if Delle is the new leader of concessions...oh wait...do I sense a rebuttal? AA or the others...what's the difference...TWU/AMFA...what's the difference?  Are they having a democratic recall of all UAL officers at UAL today?...don't think so...so much for that advantage.

[post="274922"][/post]​

I have to admit, AMFA has gone from:

"We dont take concessions"

to

"We dont take concessions without snapbacks"

to

"We take concessions just like everybody else"

I am convinced that unionism has been completely busted in the airline industry.

The TWU leadership's response to "In bed with the company" is "Damn right we are"

meanwhile,

AMFA has failed to demonstrate the fight to preserve the pay and benefits of the profession.

Time to prepare your exit strategy from the AMT Profession and go to plan B!

Looks like Delta without the burden of union dues to a worthless organization has the best deal going, and I fear they will be screwed soon also.

 

[Checking it Out]

Is it true Amfa wanted to make sure the contract would be approved at United by not allowing 904 members to vote. Were they the ones who are going to be eliminated?

 

[seed]

I have to admit, AMFA has gone from:

"We dont take concessions"

to

"We dont take concessions without snapbacks"

to

"We take concessions just like everybody else"

I am convinced that unionism has been completely busted in the airline industry.

The TWU leadership's response to "In bed with the company" is "Damn right we are"

meanwhile,

AMFA has failed to demonstrate the fight to preserve the pay and benefits of the profession.

Time to prepare your exit strategy from the AMT Profession and go to plan B!

Looks like Delta without the burden of union dues to a worthless organization has the best deal going, and I fear they will be screwed soon also.

[post="274933"][/post]​

Informer, I agree, and am not meaning to place salt on open wounds. I knew AMFA would not be any different than the TWU/IBT/IAM or any other. Our profession, as major O/H AMT's for the big name airlines is gone. What, I believe, is happening now is the TWU scurring to regroup our members to a 3rd party vendor attitude. I foresee more wage concessions to become competitive with AAR and others. Are the line stations safe? Certainly not. Once they allow the thousands of amt's that are unemployed, to starve they will attack the last fronteir, with able bodied "starved" amt's....hang on...the ride is just beginning.

 

[local 12 proud]

seed, I agree we are toast as a profession it will take another generation to turn things around. I will do my part to tell all family and friends to avoid flying and stay on land!

 

[TWU informer]

Is it true Amfa wanted to make sure the contract would be approved at United by not allowing 904 members to vote. Were they the ones who are going to be eliminated?

[post="274948"][/post]​

That 904 was NOT cuurent on their dues obligation.

That is far less than the 3200 non-voters at TWU/AA.

 

[seed]

Guys...arguing over these trivial matters serves no purpose. Somehow, somewhere, you all ( I will be furloughed 6-10) need to find a common ground and begin to save yourselves and your profession instead of throwing down verbally at each opportunity.

Now, that being said...I was an avid TWU supporter...I am now an avid AMT supporter. My feelings on the AMFA have not changed, my agenda has. I will continue to support the amt's. I will not support pajama parties. I will not support further discussion on the TWU/AMFA debate.

We are all losing here people....those furloughed...and especially those staying.

 

[TWU informer]

Guys...arguing over these trivial matters serves no purpose. Somehow, somewhere, you all ( I will be furloughed 6-10) need to find a common ground and begin to save yourselves and your profession instead of throwing down verbally at each opportunity.

Now, that being said...I was an avid TWU supporter...I am now an avid AMT supporter.  My feelings on the AMFA have not changed, my agenda has.  I will continue to support the amt's. I will not support pajama parties. I will not support further discussion on the TWU/AMFA debate.

We are all losing here people....those furloughed...and especially those staying.

[post="274977"][/post]​

seed,

You are 100% correct. But if you were take the TWU/AMFA debate/excuse from the sheep and force a debate on saving the profession, that would require action up to and including illegal action and accountable taking of a stand.

NWA is obviously planning a lock-out of Mechanics at NWA soon. The test will be, can management hire enough so-called AMT Professionals to scab at NWA. Can or will the AFL-CIO Unions come together and support the AMT demise regardless of which union represents the attacked group?

The answers are sadly NO.

The Industrial Unions will use the AMFA/TWU/IAM/IBT debate to make excuses for NON-Action on that which is required to save the profession.

The Industrial Unions will cave to more concessions instead in favor of more dues payers and more workers at less pay and benefits.

There is NO coming together. There is no Labor Movement. There is nothing but a bunch of fearful young sheep who think slogans, t-shirts, and talking about the old days when workers would fight for what they deserve is enough to get by in today's times. That is what unionism is today. All talk, No action!

Sadly enough, that which is required is neither advocated, discussed, or even part of union training anymore, nor will ever be again.

I do however, see that many are already proudly leaving the industry, and others preparing as fast as possible alternative employment.

Experienced workers retire, not replace, experienced workers laid-off, not replaced, experienced workers quit, not replaced, highly skilled younger workers leaving for more pay, not replaced, only thing remaining is the do nothing, unskilled, company suck asses, and family tree relatives that will take the company to its knees.

DO yourself a favor, get re-trained while furloughed and you will beat the mad rush.

 

[Hopeful]

So, the bottom line is when AMFA votes for a concession package, they are called spineless cowards who only TALK tough.
But when the TWU, who invented concessions, set us back 40 years, it's called saving jobs, even though the mecahanics ranks have been reduced since 1983!

 

[TWU informer]

So, the bottom line is when AMFA votes for a concession package, they are called spineless cowards who only TALK tough.
But when the TWU, who invented concessions, set us back 40 years, it's called saving jobs, even though the mecahanics ranks have been reduced since 1983!

[post="275054"][/post]​

I am not sure who are directing this at, but if it is me, then here is my response.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head there!

When AMFA votes for concessions without snapbacks, then Dell-Femine has told a lie. He has said both the AMFA does not negotiate concessions and then later changed that position to AMFA does not negotiations concessions unless it is a loan with a snap back.

When the TWU votes concessions, the membership is taken out of the process, and the Dictators sign off without further ratification

I am not defending the TWU's Industry Leading Concessions at all, I am simply pointing out the true fact that NO UNION is stopping the assault on the profession. The TWU is leaading the Concessions, and AMFA is following off the cliff.

So if both AMFA and the TWU are selling out for concessions, then where does your HOPE lie HOPEFUL?

 

[Hopeful]

Informer, my post was not directed at any individual in particular.

Pro TWUers are saying "See, AMFA lied and didn't deliver at United and soon Northwest!

They rationalize and say "See, the TWU is bringing work in instead of outsourcing."

Meanwhile the TWU has led the way starting in 1983 when mechanics' jobs were outsourced to cabin service and line cargo.

The pro TWUers, while sipping their Kool-Aid, are demanding that Delle be removed.

I didn't hear the Kool Aid drinkers call for Koziatek and Little's heads when we started the concession train rolling.

We are back to the "half a loaf is better than none" mantra that the TWU has force fed us for years.

Under this thinking, is it safe to assume that the TWU should agree to cutting our compensation and benefits even further to have 100% in house work?

Why not cut us down to $20.00 an hour and recall all laid off employees?

 

[TWU informer]

We are back to the "half a loaf is better than none" mantra that the TWU has force fed us for years.

Under this thinking, is it safe to assume that the TWU should agree to cutting our compensation and benefits even further to have 100% in house work?

Why not cut us down to $20.00 an hour and recall all laid off employees?

[post="275069"][/post]​

Oh don't worry, they will take your pension, lower your pay and benefits a little more, and ask for your first born soon enough.