Delta is removing more flights

jcw

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Aug 12, 2004
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Do not realize that earnings conference calls always have transcripts? - I guess not
 
No kidding on the MD80 - what aircraft would not benefit from lower fuel prices?
 
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jcw

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Aug 12, 2004
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then you were wrong again - if the information is public through earnings calls then it's available
 
WorldTraveler said:
you clearly don't understand the word "proprietary"

It is DL's internal information - you won't find it a link to it.

DL has chosen to release it.



 
 
so what you were saying was wrong again -
 
WorldTraveler said:
DL's earnings transcripts are available at Seeking Alpha.
 
Now you are saying they are on seeking alpha
 
So which is - is there a link or isn't there?
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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First we have this...

WorldTraveler said:
DOT regional profitability is regularly cited in Aviation Week, which is a subscription site.

just because I read and know where to find data doesn't mean that it doesn't exist because you can't find it.
 
And then this... 

WorldTraveler said:
I know where the data is.

because you don't read it doesn't make it any less real.
 
And then we get this...
 
WorldTraveler said:
it is a REAL statistic... it just happens to be an in-house metric which DL has happened to share with non-mgmt. types, including the pilots.
So the 25% margin statistic first was somewhere in AWST, then we were called lazy, but now it's disclosed that it's an internal stat that only DL employees are privvy to?...

You've painted yourself into a corner, and now you try to lie your way out.

Priceless.
 
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WorldTraveler

Corn Field
Dec 5, 2003
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well lookie here.
a couple someone's have their panties in a wad.

no, the specific fleet profitability data is not public.

The reference to M80 profitability in DL's fleet is proprietary but has been cited by DL execs as well as posted by other DL employees on other public sites.

DOT profitability is cited in Aviation Daily which is a subscription only site which means I can't copy and paste their articles.

The only ones that have been painted in a corner are those who aren't capable of using industry resources in order to find answers.

meanwhile, the 25% profit margin for parts of DL's int'l network and the reference to M80 profitability are true - whether people here want to go to the trouble to read it or not.
 

robbedagain

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Oct 13, 2003
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tell you what  DL can have all the MD 80s all they want   as a FSA  they suck when it comes to loading n unloading     give me an Airbus any day any time and Ill be happy    given that the md 80s are money makers for dl   wonder where the 777s stand in line?
 
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WorldTraveler

Corn Field
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I believe Kev says the same thing about preferring 320s.

I can believe it is true.

The 777s are great aircraft but long flights are very expensive to operate.

If you want a hint as to what other aircraft generate strong profits, think of aircraft that hold a lot of people relative to the size of the engine and fuselage.... ie 333, 764, 753, 321s, 739s.

stretch aircraft always have good economics and that drops down to the bottom line...

it isn't a surprise that a large portion of aircraft on order in the US carrier fleet are 321s and 739s.
 

jcw

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Someone might want to call Boeing to let them know that 777 is a dog - not sure why so many airlines fly them in their long haul fleets
 
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WorldTraveler

Corn Field
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no one said it is a dog.... new generation aircraft are making the 777 obsolete.

the economics of the 772 particularly become less favorable relative to the new generation aircraft. other than AA, there are no US carriers with 777s on order.... everything else is 787s or 350s.

DL had even said they were potentially interested in used 777s but later said the economics of reconfiguring the cabins to DL specs relative to the purchase price and economics of operating the aircraft make new aircraft a better option - which shows that DL does buy new aircraft when the economics show it is worth it.
 

commavia

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Aug 14, 2004
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There's no question that DOT regional financial numbers can give a general, directional idea as to the financial performance of an airline in a particular region, although said numbers are, like with many other income statement numbers reported by the airlines themselves, susceptible to the individual financial and accounting policies that can differ from carrier to carrier and make precise apples-to-apples comparisons impossible.  As such, the only way to truly adjudicate these differences is to roll up to the network level:
 
AA 3Q14 operating profit = $1.260B (11.31% margin)
Delta 3Q14 operating profit = $835M (7.47% margin)
United 3Q14 operating profit = $1.191B (11.28% margin)
 
AA 3Q14 net profit = $942M (8.46% margin)
Delta 3Q14 net profit = $357M (3.19% margin)
United 3Q14 net profit = $924M (8.75% margin)
 
(The above brought to you by an equally-double-super-secret internal source known as "the companies' websites.")
 
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eolesen

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Trying to extrapolate a specific geo-regional profit/loss can be Enron math, and there's little doubt some carriers will overstate or understate network contribution to fit the narrative.

Yet another trick the airlines picked up from the railroads...
 
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WorldTraveler

Corn Field
Dec 5, 2003
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Feel free to argue to the DOT that the data they collect is incorrect.

it is convenient to argue the point when the numbers don't suit your story.

in fact, those same DOT stats show that AA/US' financial strength has come from the domestic market - which is precisely what I have been saying, from the Atlantic in peak season (even though there have been losses off-peak), and Latin America up until the most recent quarters as the dollar has soared relative to those currencies.

so, the regional profitability does matter. and other costs and corporate revenue are allocated across those regions so it is reflective of the company.

as has also been noted, DL is much further along the restructuring path and its tax treatment is different. UA is not as far along as DL. AA has an advantage in being relatively new out of BK. Compare all to WN and see how continued profitability affects taxes. WN pays cash taxes while none of the big 3 legacy carriers do.

DL also took fuel hedge adjustments (mark to market losses) so they have already taken a hit for some of their hedge losses. So have other carriers who have hedges.

I still submit and we can certainly see in the coming quarters that the revenue impacts to AA will be far larger than they will be to other carriers and may well be as large or larger than to any carrier - other than when there was huge global impact to airline revenues.

and, lest we wonder too far from this topic, let's remember that DL is ADDING more capacity than other carriers are and will offset whatever hedge losses they have with increased revenues and lower overall costs. AA's revenues losses will not be offset by fuel hedge gains (or lack of hedge losses) because if they were, AA would be providing guidance to validate that.
 

jcw

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Aug 12, 2004
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WorldTraveler said:
it is convenient to argue the point when the numbers don't suit your story.

 
 
That's rich - you argue numbers all the time
 
Let's face it the DOT numbers are not exact as you are allocating overhead and other things inconsistently between airlines
 
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WorldTraveler

Corn Field
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the numbers DO suit the truth, which is what I talk about.

would you like to deny that AA makes money on their domestic network and that Europe does very well for them in the summer? or that Latin America has been their cash cow?

that's what the numbers have said for a long time.

AA is trying to fix their winter TATL profitability. that's a good thing in case you missed it.