Delta Mechanic Wages.......

[aafsc]

<_< aa----- This is not the time or place for this debate! But if you insist! That's right! "Kasher", not aa, gave us 100% here at MCI, and STL! So what was aa's responce to that??? Get reed of, or cut back as much as posible, MCI and STL!!! It dosen't take a genious to figure out what they have done! But I guess I haven't aqused you of that either, have I ??? Read the previous posts by these people at Delta regarding TWA! They've got this thing figured out!!! 😉

[post="305142"][/post]​

You are right about this being the wrong time and place. But my quick response is that from the beginning AA left it entirely up to the unions with regards to seniority. After all, the unions LEGALLY control UNION seniority, not AA. Remeber the TWU survey where the VAST MAJORITY of TWU represented people said TWA people should have been stapled? DL is in BK and is scaling back CVG and will be returning large numbers of aircraft back to the lessors, UA has returned many aircraft to the lessors, NW is also in BK and will be getting rid of a lot of planes, USAir dehubbed PIT. Just about all of these airlines farmout heavy maintanence. As for AA, yes they scaled back just like all the others have done. MCI and STL were the weakest links in AA's system. TUL is the largest facility in the world and AFW is a new and state of the art facility while MCI is 50 years old and falling apart. Did you think AA should have downsized it's traditional large base (TUL) or it's new state of the art base (AFW) just for the sake of keeping TWAers employed at it's 50 year old base? As for STL, can anyone say with a straight face that STL is a better hub then ORD or DFW? Of course not. If the state of Missouri and the city of Kansas City had not put up refurbishment money, AA would have almost certainly closed MCI down totally and for good.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Thanks for the info, Cain and MD88. in your opinions, is Air Canada a better or worse MRO than some of the other ones? Same question for the company in MIA.

 

[MCI transplant]

You are right about this being the wrong time and place. But my quick response is that from the beginning AA left it entirely up to the unions with regards to seniority. After all, the unions LEGALLY control UNION seniority, not AA. Remeber the TWU survey where the VAST MAJORITY of TWU represented people said TWA people should have been stapled? DL is in BK and is scaling back CVG and will be returning large numbers of aircraft back to the lessors, UA has returned many aircraft to the lessors, NW is also in BK and will be getting rid of a lot of planes, USAir dehubbed PIT. Just about all of these airlines farmout heavy maintanence. As for AA, yes they scaled back just like all the others have done. MCI and STL were the weakest links in AA's system. TUL is the largest facility in the world and AFW is a new and state of the art facility while MCI is 50 years old and falling apart. Did you think  AA should have downsized it's traditional large base (TUL) or it's new state of the art base (AFW) just for the sake of keeping TWAers employed at it's 50 year old base? As for STL, can anyone say with a straight face that STL is a better hub then ORD or DFW? Of course not. If the state of Missouri and the city of Kansas City had not put up refurbishment money, AA would have almost certainly closed MCI down totally and for good.

[post="305226"][/post]​

<_< Can you say, with a stright face , aa was not in complacisity with it's Unions to dump as many of exTWA employees as posible??? And what "survey" you talking about? I don't remmber any "survey"! Yet alone any results of that survey!!!! "VAST MAJORITY"! YOU???? MCI is 50years old! How old is TUL???? How much rent $$$ aa paying to Ross Peiro for the privalage of using that "State of the art Base" at AFW ???How much they paying the the city of Kansas City to use this place? STL was never intended to "replace" either ORD, or DFW as a hub! But you (the TWU) intentionally wrote in language into our contract that "Protected" all employees on the payroll Two weeks prior to the buyout, with aa's blessing, leaving all exTWA out in the cold! When layoffs came we were the ones without "pertection" therefore the fist to go! No matter what seniority we had!
aa systomaticaly striped MCI of all it's tooling, and personel! TWA had a completely differant philosofy of Maintenance! If something was broke, we would repair it, and put it back on the aircraft! We "had" that ablity to do just that! aa's phlosofy, if a part is broke, through it away and put a new one on the aircraft! We had the ability of doing things here aa had no interest in! We were a threat to TUL, even though we couldn't do what they could, but a threat no less! So what does aa do with threats? They get reed of it!!! We had one of the best APU overhaul facilities in the country here! aa would rather farm out that work, so they dismantaled it!! And it go'es on, and on!!!! Like I said before, this is not the time or place for this! And I do appoligize to all those at Delta!!! I'll say no more, but I'm sure youall will have to put up with more from aafsc!!!! :down:

 

[aafsc]

<_< Can you say, with a stright face , aa was not in complacisity with it's Unions to dump as many of exTWA employees as posible??? And what "survey" you talking about? I don't remmber any "survey"! Yet alone any results of that survey!!!! "VAST MAJORITY"! YOU???? MCI is 50years old! How old is TUL???? How much rent $$$ aa paying to Ross Peiro for the privalage of using that "State of the art Base" at AFW ???How much they paying the the city of Kansas City to use this place? STL was never intended to "replace" either ORD, or DFW as a hub! But you (the TWU) intentionally wrote in language into our contract that "Protected" all employees on the payroll Two weeks prior to the buyout, with aa's blessing, leaving all exTWA out in the cold! When layoffs came we were the ones without "pertection" therefore the fist to go! No matter what seniority we had!
aa systomaticaly striped MCI of all it's tooling, and personel! TWA had a completely differant philosofy of Maintenance! If something was broke, we would repair it, and put it back on the aircraft! We "had" that ablity to do just that! aa's phlosofy, if a part is broke, through it away and put a new one on the aircraft! We had the ability of doing things here aa had no interest in! We were a threat to TUL, even though we couldn't do what they could, but a threat no less! So what does aa do with threats? They get reed of it!!! We had one of the best APU overhaul facilities in the country here! aa would rather farm out that work, so they dismantaled it!! And it go'es on, and on!!!! Like I said before, this is not the time or place for this! And I do appoligize to all those at Delta!!! I'll say no more, but I'm sure youall will have to put up with more from aafsc!!!! :down:

[post="305264"][/post]​

My last post on this topic, my apologies also to DL people but I have to refute false information.
Yes, I can say with a straight face that there was no conspiracy between the unions and AA to layoff the former TWA people because they laid off even more AAers. If MCI was viewed as a "threat" and AA truly wanted to get rid of MCI, they would and could have done so very easily long ago and have good excuses for doing so (fuel, war, etc.)AA has always had protections since the early 1980s. The TWU got protection for it's members to March 2001 in the tentative agreement in normal section 6 negotiations. This protection was pushed back to Sep 1998 in the concessions of 2003. When we reached the T/A in 2001, AA DID NOT YET CONTROL TWA's ASSETS AND THE TWU COULD NOT NEGOTIATE ON YOUR BEHALF. TWA WAS STILL INDEPENDENT AND INTACT AND THE IAM WAS YOUR LABOR REPRESENTATIVE. SO YOU WERE NOT ON AA's PAYROLL AND NOT A TWU MEMBER, therefore TWAers were not entitled to protection. It's amazing, I worked at AA for several years before I got ANY protection but the TWAers think they should get protection negotiated for them while they still work for a competitor and being representd by another union. The Mar 2001 protection date basically covered all TWU members at that time.

STL was to act as an overflow for ORD and we were going to get 80 planes from USAir in addition to TWAs. That is why in Jan 2001 that they said they needed MCI. However US/UA did not go thru so we did not get the US planes and 9/11 and everything else happened and AA basically retreated to it's core hubs and bases. Regarding the TWU survey, they mailed it to every members home. I filled mine out and turned it in. The results are still posted on the union bulletin board in my work area.

End of discussion.

 

[DalMD88]

Thanks for the info, Cain and MD88. in your opinions, is Air Canada a better or worse MRO than some of the other ones? Same question for the company in MIA.

[post="305258"][/post]​

We have heard we have been having a lot of problems with the ACTS contract. They can't make ready times. I've also heard they have been breaking more than they fix. I have no examples only rumor. The 767/757 lines are so behind that we have been forced to send work to TIMCO in Lake City and now Greensboro. I'm sure that is coming out of ACTS pocket. Rumor from Avborne is the operation is running OK but the planes are not as reliable as when we did the HMV's in house. The last rumor I heard is the outsourcing is costing 19% more than it cost to do it in house. That does make sense. We were running a very lean operation. We may have been higher payed; but we did it with less manpower, faster, and more reliablity. The real cost will show its self farther down the line when we find out how good these places are dealing with the corrosion. The is a real payme now or payme a lot later proposal.

 

[justaumechanic]

And Delta does not have maintenance done out of the country? Not sure but I don't remember Canada as being part of the United States!! JetBlue gets its work done in the same "hole" that Delta does, Air Canada Technical Services. So make your point.

As for pay, think again buddy. Delta techs make more than JetBlue techs. Yes your starting wage is a little lower than ours but your top out is way above ours. Your benefits are better to.

So quit your whinning, welcome to reality. Jerry is going to bone you. When he's done most of you will not have a job. Delta Technical Services is going to end up just like UAL technical services.. A shadow of what it once was.

Look for your engine shop to be disposed of. Delta is not going to want the liability.

If you compare mechanics wages at Delta with all the other airlines we were 2nd from the bottom, $21 more a month than Jet-Blew, Air-Tran just got a raise. Our F/A's,ramp and of course our Pilots were far from being 2nd from the lowest in the industry, hence only a 7% cut, which's puts us at the bottom. This year alone I have personally seen about a 35% cut including benies. Mechanics have been leaving before these cut's ,can't wait to see what happens now. We were told we're not compared to other airlines, we are now compared to MRO's. O.K. if you want to be an MRO and pay MRO's wages shouldn't we be charging Delta's ass for working on their aircraft? Oh and just my opinion here...There has been at least 3 major air disasters out of the U.S. recentely, maintanence I'm sure performed out of the U.S. on them too, and now I think we're just starting to see some of this LOW-quality maintanence trickle into the U.S. JET-BLUE. Yes they have maintanence performed out of the country. You would think bells and whistles would be going off. Just wanted to say, great job by the pilot, maybe if said maintnence had been done by a qualified mechanic in the U.S. he would'nt have had to face that situation . Good luck. America's going to need it !!! :unsure:

[post="304924"][/post]​

 

[DalMD88]

I doubt the engine and component shops will be gotten rid of. They make way too much money on insourcing back there. If anything gets chopped it will be more airframe work. It is more labor intensive and we can't seem to compete very well on insourcing more work.

As for our top out and benefits being better than JetBlue, well we are rapidly coming down to meet you. That in my opinion is the fault of the mechanics at JetBlue and other low cost airlines. Mechanics at those airlines were willing to work for less and demanded less for benefits so the entire profession suffers.