DL pulling back JFK-SEA BE service?

[topDawg]

DL has more frequencies and a slightly smaller (3%) amount of seats.

DL has a higher share of seats in the market than any other carrier and increased frequency further increases DL's share of the market

"look at this hand *SLAP with the other*...... 
 
or in other words.....Delta wins. Who cares what they said they would do, true or not.....Delta still wins. 
 

It seems fewer and fewer DL flights in the JFK-SEA market are being operated with BusinessElite (recliner) seats than before. Back in late 2012/early 2013 DL delegated these aircraft to SEA (along with LAX & SFO) and provide the enchanted onboard meal service, Tumi amenity kits, Westin pillow and duvet set. Lately it seems several daily flights are operating with 75X (26 F seat) and 738 aircraft which lack even recliner style seats. DL maintains the no medallion upgrade policy in this market nonetheless. At anyways this is a deceptive practice as they have marketed it as full BusinessElite service but seem to be backpedaling lately. They should either maintain the full BE service or go back to serving it like any other domestic route and permit Medallion UGs. Also of not, DL only guarantees flat beds on JFK-LAX, not even SFO. I assume it's only a matter of time until the mods get completed and they are offered on JFK-SFO consistently. Maybe DL realized SEA doesn't produce the same premium traffic as LAX (or even SFO).

Josh

its has slowly but surely been going away. it was 2 or 3x 75E and 1x 767, then it went to 1x 75X 3x 75E, then to 2x 75X 2x 75E and soon it goes to 2x 738 1x 75E. 
 
 
be careful, WT might tell you the 75E flight connects to Asia, but it doesn't. just FWIW....been down this road already. 
 

who says DL is marketing anything as a BE flight.

care to give us a screenshot?

Delta...........?
 
let me help for you though, 
"NEW YORK, Nov. 5, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- In the latest move demonstrating its commitment to being New York's airline, Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) will introduce full flat-bed seats in the BusinessElite® cabin of all transcontinental flights operating between New York and Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle beginning in March 2013.  All of Delta's Boeing 757 and 767 aircraft serving these transcontinental markets will offer the flatbed seats over approximately the following 24 months. "
 
 
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=124081
 
 
Say it with me WT, www.google.com

Yes it is false advertising. DL may provide the enhanced catering, Westin Heavenly pillow/duvet, and Tumi amenity kit but it is not the full BE service someone would experience to LAX/SFO let alone longhaul flights. Again why is it being marketed as BE with BE inventory if it's not Be? One of four flights some days offer angle flat seats, the rest are recliners. So by your logic should ATL-LAX also be marketed as BE? More of those flights have angle flat and lie flat seats than JFK-SEA. WT you are way off base here, it is clearly a deceptive practice and false advertising on DLs part you just can't see past your agenda.

Josh

Not even sure it gets the T-con catering/amenity kit and Westin Heavenly bedding. 
Just did the route on a 75X in F not to long a go. regular pillow/blanket and same food as ATL-LAX. 
 
could have been a stocking issue however. 
 

Let me translate for everyone

See josh started this about jfk-sea

However since josh is right I convenently without anyone noticed focused on lax and SFO and dropped SEA figuring no one would notice

It's called a tried a true strategy - change the subjects

soon enough we will see how Delta wins because they can carry more cargo on LAX-JFK than AA. 
 

Wldnt that be false advertising?

in the real world? no. just put a * next to it and add small print. 
 
equipment changes happen..... 

 

[WorldTraveler]

dawg,
thanks for posting that press release.

that is the first I have seen or anyone has posted that DL would offer BE on every flight on JFK-SEA AS WELL AS JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO flights.

JFK-SFO is still BE even if it is not the lie flat product - and I believe the new BE product is on some of the flights even if it is not advertised as such.

I would agree with dawg's position that DL did say they would offer BE on every flight but have not done so.

It is still not 2 years from when they said they would offer the BE product on all SE flights so they aren't in violation of what they said.

and then you can ask yourself what the implications are if they didn't do that. have they continued to repeat that same "promise"

and they are not selling BE service based on a press release from 2 years ago. They sell service based on their schedules that are in effect TODAY.

If DL were selling BE service in their electronic systems and then substituting a 738 every day, they would be in violation.

the sales mechanism is not press releases.

 

[737823]

WT I posted that the press release and yea DL has promised service that they largeky haven't delivered. Yes, DL and other carriers primary business is safe transportation from point A to point B, and the contract of carriage allows them to sub equipmentnbut as you stated for DL to consistently not provide BE service and market it as such is not right.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

and even if it is true that a press release from 18 months ago said that JFK-SEA would be all BE, inventory is not sold from press releases.

DL like all carriers sells its product electronically.

How recently has DL repeated a press release saying that JFK-SEA would be all BE?

and the point is still that last year, JFK-SEA wasn't all BE and it isn't this year either.

If consistency of product is an issue, how can AA get by with having such vastly different levels of service even in coach between their 763ER and 777 fleets? I haven't seen any * that says that AA's 767 product is no different from when the planes were delivered while the 777s are 21st century products.

 

[737823]

WT read the links I provided. DL is selling it as BE even on flights with 738/75X equipment. My understanding was on those flights they still offered the enhanced catering, Westin duvets and Tumi kits but according to Dawg that is no longer the case. You know how agencies and corporate travelers book it is misleading and deceptive for them to use the BusinessElite inventory. DL should delegate appropriate aircraft and provide advertised amenities or market it as domestic FC (and permit Medallion UGs) it's amazing you don't understand how this is deceptive.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL has never offered duvets on non BE flights.

I'm sorry but the difference between regular domestic F and business elite is apparent in every booking engine.

DL doesn't offer BE amenities on flights that are not operated with BE equipment.

 

[737823]

So why is JFK-SEA being sold as BE? You just can't admit DL has dropped the ball here can you? I really hope DL gets flooded with complaints from passengers and the appropriate authorities about this, it's deceptive and misleading.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Josh,
I would be happy to admit that DL is being deceptive if they were but that is not happening from what I can see.

I am looking at a delta.com availability display right now for Monday November 10 and it lists 3 flights that are listed as business (C class) and 1 that is listed as business (J class).

3 of the 4 flights are actually scheduled to operate with int'l configured 757s and yet only one is sold as BE.

if anything, Josh, DL is delivering above what it is promising.

if you think it is deceptive, send a letter to the New York attorney general's office.

You're the one who will look like a fool for making an issue where one clearly doesn't exist.

be sure and note that you are ticked off at DL for taking away 90 seats on the JFK-TLV flight even though you say you wouldn't fly DL anyway. I'm sure it will all make sense to their atty. general with that disclaimer.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

if anything, Josh, DL is delivering above what it is promising.
 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This has to be one of your best! spins! ever!

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't expect you to get it but selling 1 flight as BE but operating 3 is exceeding what was promised and also shows that Josh's complaint is without basis.

this thread also needs to be locked.

it is combative and not based on any kind of current evidence

a press release from 18 months ago is no evidence that DL is engaging in false advertising today.

If Josh can post a picture of the advertising that is on today showing that ALL JFK-SEA flights will be offered on BE aircraft, then he might have a case.

 

[robbedagain]

pics josh   post pics of the ads    

 

[jcw]

Let me translate

See I can't handle pushback so I'm screaming for it to be locked

See only I can be combative it's the double standard at work

 

[737823]

I don't expect you to get it but selling 1 flight as BE but operating 3 is exceeding what was promised and also shows that Josh's complaint is without basis.this thread also needs to be locked.it is combative and not based on any kind of current evidencea press release from 18 months ago is no evidence that DL is engaging in false advertising today.If Josh can post a picture of the advertising that is on today showing that ALL JFK-SEA flights will be offered on BE aircraft, then he might have a case.

WT the flights being sold in Business inventory and again DL has extensively marketed the enhanced BE service. Either the SEA route hasn't performed as they expected with the enhanced seating, service and amenities or they want to take more of the 757s to facilitate the flat bed mods or likely both. More than anything I think DL is expanding the premium service to SEA to help sell BE tickets to Asia so passengers from NY could enjoy a better transcon experience. At any rate DL is NOT providing to the customer what they have marketed and are not offering Medallion UGs.

Josh

 

[topDawg]

this thread also needs to be locked.
 

 simple terms.........sh*t I talked without knowing what I am talking about (AGAIN).....
mods please bail me out now........!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

WT the flights being sold in Business inventory and again DL has extensively marketed the enhanced BE service. Either the SEA route hasn't performed as they expected with the enhanced seating, service and amenities or they want to take more of the 757s to facilitate the flat bed mods or likely both. More than anything I think DL is expanding the premium service to SEA to help sell BE tickets to Asia so passengers from NY could enjoy a better transcon experience. At any rate DL is NOT providing to the customer what they have marketed and are not offering Medallion UGs.

Josh

Josh,
you don't know what you are talking about
C and J are not the same thing.

all of central America is sold as C (business) but not J (which is business Elite).

DL is selling 3 out of 4 flights on Nov 10 in Business (C or J) but only one in Business Elite (J)