I agree that the mechanics face a bit of a Hobson's choice - contract abrogation or negotiated concessions where the negotiators make Peter Griffin look brilliant. For the APA and the APFA, negotiations by their independent unions are definitely preferrable to abrogation.
do not take concessions make the judge take em
- Thread starter Harvey
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Frank Szabo
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I second that motion.
strikeforce
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In all seriousness, you should prepare your resume and get it out as soon as possible to beat the rush. That would be great advice. At UAL, they layed off down to 1989 seniority.....that would equate to about 6,000 out the door in M&R, if OH is gone. Bottom line....gonna ride out this train wreck until my number comes up, but I'm not waiting around to look for other more positive opprotunities, either.
johnny kat
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There is something different about AMR's bankruptcy...the Debtor in Possession Financing....is the 4 billion the company currently has. I believe this is different than most of the other airline bankruptcys which needed outside investors to come up with the cash. This situation will allow either the company to drive a hard bargain down the employees throat or will allow corporate executives to easily break the company up and sell off the parts at auction.
I really don't think a breakup will be in anyone's interest. IMHO I believe management will come at the employees in such a brutal way that after all is said and done you would really have to love your job because anything good will be gone. There will be many changes in work rules that require longer hours and more days to make the same salary as before. Pensions will be gutted. Health care will be more expensive with less coverage. Not to mention a big reduction in work force with whole work groups being cut. You can expect more outsourcing.
Union politics will come into play and you won't know who is telling the truth...management or the unions. A judge will be overseeing all of this and you had better believe will be using past practices in other airline bankruptcy cases as a guide to getting at labor costs and other cuts the company will request. But of course everyone knows this will happen because it happens in every airline bankruptcy. In the end the whole thing turns into a travesty. The sad part about all of this is your own personal life takes somewhat of a backseat to what is best for the corporate entity, this will make you ask yourself the question "Is It Worth It?", if you answer Yes, then accept the changes and get on with it. If not then you don't need to put yourself through it and you can move on. That is the rub. I know because I've been through it at US. Good luck to everyone at American Airlines!
I really don't think a breakup will be in anyone's interest. IMHO I believe management will come at the employees in such a brutal way that after all is said and done you would really have to love your job because anything good will be gone. There will be many changes in work rules that require longer hours and more days to make the same salary as before. Pensions will be gutted. Health care will be more expensive with less coverage. Not to mention a big reduction in work force with whole work groups being cut. You can expect more outsourcing.
Union politics will come into play and you won't know who is telling the truth...management or the unions. A judge will be overseeing all of this and you had better believe will be using past practices in other airline bankruptcy cases as a guide to getting at labor costs and other cuts the company will request. But of course everyone knows this will happen because it happens in every airline bankruptcy. In the end the whole thing turns into a travesty. The sad part about all of this is your own personal life takes somewhat of a backseat to what is best for the corporate entity, this will make you ask yourself the question "Is It Worth It?", if you answer Yes, then accept the changes and get on with it. If not then you don't need to put yourself through it and you can move on. That is the rub. I know because I've been through it at US. Good luck to everyone at American Airlines!
your right I don't mean any harm. I want through it with United Airlines and we got screwed and later it was proven we didn't have to lose our pension But it was to late we gave them up. I repeat your union and AA will lye cheat and steal everything they can if you want to give it all away so be it but one day in the future you'll look back and say we should have said no and fought till the end.
And what ever you do get a snap back in wages and benefits don't believe the union and AA when they tell you the creditors wont allow it it's bull*&^%
And what ever you do get a snap back in wages and benefits don't believe the union and AA when they tell you the creditors wont allow it it's bull*&^%
strikeforce
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well, here's the puzzling part to this whole BK story from management.....if management was really serious about cutting labor costs, a cost neutral agreement wouldn't of help this company compete against it's competitors. Their proposal to the mechanics back in 2010 wasn't cost neutral by any means.....we still had the pension, retiree medical was modified, but not terminated, pay was increased from $33/hr to about $38/hr, more holidays, sick time. So, were they really looking to gut our agreement????? Far from it. Or, were they just blowing smoke and buying time knowing Tulsa wouldn't accept it, but hoping they would bite, and now using bankruptcy as retaliation against labor to gut the CBA. It certainly doesn't add up. The motives for BK are a little irrational and not the norm, especially considering the DIP issue.
It's going to be interesting to see their initial proposal to the union??????
strikeforce
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hard bargain?????
why didn't the company propose a hard bargain from the start....at least the employees would have taken notice that the company was serious about cutting costs and competing. There wasn't an inkling of deep cost cuts in any proposals. I think they used the stall tactics to get to certain level of funding in order to file, and the pilots mass retirements through management for a loop, and they were forced to file. This is not 2003 in any way, shape or form. Show me one BK where the debtor used cash on hand to fund their own DIP??????
And, then tell me how much AA is paying the lawyers???
Zom JFK
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Here Here!
Frank Szabo
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Add to that a few 'international' boys.
Who is the fool, Harvey? The one who actively negotiates and has a say in the final contract, or the one who lets a judge impose terms on them?
How many times do I have to say this?
The judge doesnt negotiate your CBA, he only rules on the company's motion to approve a CBA that was ratified by the membership if the Company and the Union agree to one, or he will abrogate it and the company will have him impose their final offer.
He doesnt negotiate, nor does he modify any proposal the company makes.
Read Section 1113, its amazing how people ignore the facts and make up this crap.
Educate yourself!
Hopeful
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Save your breath 700.....There are people who believe the BK judge will happily give us all a big fat raise because we took major concessions....They do not understand the judge's MAIN priority is getting the company to be viable and profitable....
Some have still not woken up to the fact that AA is now a bankrupt carrier and that even with $4 billion in cash, they are still going to get screwed.
