do not take concessions make the judge take em

[enough already]

There is no place like home

click. click

There is no place like home

click. click

There is no place like home

click. click

Your Point????

Probably that although you may have control over the decisions you make in your life, you have absolutely no control over the decisions the bankruptcy judge is going to make. 😛h34r:

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Probably that although you may have control over the decisions you make in your life, you have absolutely no control over the decisions the bankruptcy judge is going to make. 😛h34r:

I just think he is a TWU crony dispatched to dispel any notion that their is an 1113 process..The intl. TWU would rather secretly make a deal with AA to retain the most dues payers rather than attempt to show the court that AA does not need the amount of relief they are seeking..

The process usually starts after the motion to abrogate is filed but I am guessing they are already making a deal..

 

[Buck]

I just think he is a TWU crony dispatched to dispel any notion that their is an 1113 process..The intl. TWU would rather secretly make a deal with AA to retain the most dues payers rather than attempt to show the court that AA does not need the amount of relief they are seeking..

The process usually starts after the motion to abrogate is filed but I am guessing they are already making a deal..

Let's just say you are wrong......

 

[enough already]

I just think he is a TWU crony dispatched to dispel any notion that their is an 1113 process..The intl. TWU would rather secretly make a deal with AA to retain the most dues payers rather than attempt to show the court that AA does not need the amount of relief they are seeking..

The process usually starts after the motion to abrogate is filed but I am guessing they are already making a deal..

Wow! You couldn't be further from the truth...

 

[john john]

So your learned advice would be "refuse to negotiate so the judge has no choice but to abrogate the contract so the company can impose its terms."

I'm certain there's some advice out there that's more useless than yours, but yours is right up there in the "very bad advice" category.

That was the IAM strategy at USAirways. The judge abrogated the contract after the IAM try to reach a deal at the negotiating table and imposed the company’s final offer. The IAM did negotiate some changes after the abrogation

 

[john john]

The world is full of choices!! I will not cower in the face of this situation!!! Do You Understand that I am not afraid of any outcome??

With the agents a US the offers were so low that the passenger service agents were ready to threat a strike. And took a strike vote and when back to the negotiating table and reached a agreement

 

[700UW]

That was the IAM strategy at USAirways. The judge abrogated the contract after the IAM try to reach a deal at the negotiating table and imposed the company’s final offer. The IAM did negotiate some changes after the abrogation

That was not the IAM's strategy at US, fleet and ramp reached new concessionary Cba's in bankruptcy, mechanic and related, we negotiated from Oct of 04 till Feb of 05' we never reached a deal, we even gave them a full offer, which they refused, as it kept too many people employed.

I should know, I was on the negotiating committee.

 

[john john]

I should know, I was on the negotiating committee.

For fleet Service? Why did IAM fleet service reach an agreement? And IAM mechanic and related did not?

 

[NYer]

How many times do I have to say this?

The judge doesnt negotiate your CBA, he only rules on the company's motion to approve a CBA that was ratified by the membership if the Company and the Union agree to one, or he will abrogate it and the company will have him impose their final offer.

He doesnt negotiate, nor does he modify any proposal the company makes.

Read Section 1113, its amazing how people ignore the facts and make up this crap.

Educate yourself!

The part you're missing is that if the Union and Company can't come to an agreement, the Creditors can then make a proposal that the Judge can use to either accept or not. In that case who wants a completely biased group dictate a contract? Because of the Northwest BK, the Judge will not impose the last offer from the Company, they may impose the original "ask" from the Company which will be much worse than anything negotiated.

 

[john john]

The part you're missing is that if the Union and Company can't come to an agreement, the Creditors can then make a proposal that the Judge can use to either accept or not. In that case who wants a completely biased group dictate a contract? Because of the Northwest BK, the Judge will not impose the last offer from the Company, they may impose the original "ask" from the Company which will be much worse than anything negotiated.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05007/438525-28.stm
in a conciliatory move, US Airways pledged not to implement the order immediately. The union, in turn, agreed to let its membership vote on what it called the company's "last, best and final" proposal, an offer that capped a frustrating set of negotiations aimed at saving the company more than $350 million.
The IAM also agreed not to strike US Airways while the vote is being taken. The results will be known on Jan. 21, and until then, the airline said, it will continue to pay IAM members under the terms of an earlier emergency court order that cut their wages by 21 percent.
Mitchell asserted that the IAM never engaged in serious negotiations with the company, instead offering only "trial balloons." The company's initial proposal to the IAM asked for the ability to outsource thousands of jobs, and Mitchell acknowledged the IAM might have difficulty agreeing to "cut their own throats."
But "the question comes down to this -- which is worse, that half of the mechanics lose their jobs or all of the mechanics lose their jobs?" he said.

 

[Barfbag]

The part you're missing is that if the Union and Company can't come to an agreement, the Creditors can then make a proposal that the Judge can use to either accept or not. In that case who wants a completely biased group dictate a contract? Because of the Northwest BK, the Judge will not impose the last offer from the Company, they may impose the original "ask" from the Company which will be much worse than anything negotiated.

Do you think that the judge will favor one union agreement with a TA over another without ?

 

[eolesen]

Do you think that the judge will favor one union agreement with a TA over another without ?

Let's be clear -- S1113 is not like mediation or even a PEB, where you have opportunities to throw multiple versions of an agreement on the table, and even cherry-pick to some degree, all the time hoping you can sway the arbitrator/mediator/committee to your side.

Whatever is brought forward will be approved, be it consensual changes, or the company's wish-list. The only thing he'll be concerned with is that due process took place. If due process hasn't taken place, he'll send you guys back to continue to negotiate a settlement, and if not, the company will likely still get their wish-list.

Also try to remember that the judge isn't going to spend days and weeks on this. This is just one decision out of hundreds he has to sign off on.

It's the biggest thing on the docket to you guys, but just a tick-box to everyone else.

 

[NYer]

Do you think that the judge will favor one union agreement with a TA over another without ?

The Judge will look at the numbers and the law. He will have little regard to who has what. If a Union gets a deal and it passed the muster with the Creditors then the Judge will accept it. If a Union decides not to come to an agreement then the "ask" may be approved or a separate Creditors proposal (which ever is worse for us) will be accepted.

 

[NYer]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05007/438525-28.stm
in a conciliatory move, US Airways pledged not to implement the order immediately. The union, in turn, agreed to let its membership vote on what it called the company's "last, best and final" proposal, an offer that capped a frustrating set of negotiations aimed at saving the company more than $350 million.
The IAM also agreed not to strike US Airways while the vote is being taken. The results will be known on Jan. 21, and until then, the airline said, it will continue to pay IAM members under the terms of an earlier emergency court order that cut their wages by 21 percent.
Mitchell asserted that the IAM never engaged in serious negotiations with the company, instead offering only "trial balloons." The company's initial proposal to the IAM asked for the ability to outsource thousands of jobs, and Mitchell acknowledged the IAM might have difficulty agreeing to "cut their own throats."
But "the question comes down to this -- which is worse, that half of the mechanics lose their jobs or all of the mechanics lose their jobs?" he said.

What's your point?

 

[700UW]

For fleet Service? Why did IAM fleet service reach an agreement? And IAM mechanic and related did not?

Two different CBA, two different Districts, two different negotiating committees, two different company committees and two different proposals.

You dont want M&R negotiating for Fleet and vice a versa, now do you?

Because the company wanted to layoff 50% of the workforce and outsource maintenance. They never moved off their position.

I was on the M&R NC and we all met after negotiations to update each other, even the AFA met with us on a consistent basis.

Its apparent you dont understand the process or the organization of the IAM.

We had Four Negotiating Committees.

1. Mechanic and Related, with US M&R Employees, District 142 GCs and two GLRs.

2. Maintenance Training Specialists, with US MIT Employees one District GC and one GLR.

3. Fleet, with US Ramp employees, AGCs from 141 and one GLR.

4. The Section 1114 Committee, one GLR and one GC from 142 and retired former GCs who were US employees.

We had three different CBAs and work groups to represent.